http://www.motherearthnews.com/arc/194/



JOAT
Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong.
- David Fasold

It was somewhere outside Barstow when (J T)
wrote:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/arc/194/

What a piece of ugly - thought it was another of those Popular
Woodworking plans 8-)

What is "Shaker" about this design, and for that matter, when did the
Shakers make (let alone invent) lap desks ?

Andy Dingley wrote:
What a piece of ugly - thought it was another of those Popular
Woodworking plans 8-)

What is "Shaker" about this design, and for that matter, when did the
Shakers make (let alone invent) lap desks ?

Most likely this was designed during the same era in which they came up
with that big 460v 3-phase shaper to allow for the intricate edge design
on their entertainment cabinets that they proudly displayed on their web
sites g

#1 - definitely ugly. I've seen much better lap desks in Fine Woodworking,
etc.

#2 - Nothing is "Shaker" about this version of the item. The term "Shaker"
is used today in ways that would make Mother Ann Lee roll over in her grave.

#3 - While Shakers would have used lap desks (when on the road selling
seeds, rockers, etc.), they certainly didn't invent the item. In reality,
as far as furniture goes, the Shakers "invented" very little. As most of
the carpeters (male and female) joined the community and were not born into
it, they also brought with them the skills and influences of the "world".
The style of the day was influenced by the Shaker rule of simplicity in
construction became the Shaker style. Unfortunately, anything that appears
to be of a simple design is labeled "Shaker" in hopes it will generate
additional interest in the item.


Brian




"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
news
It was somewhere outside Barstow when (J T)
wrote:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/arc/194/

What a piece of ugly - thought it was another of those Popular
Woodworking plans 8-)

What is "Shaker" about this design, and for that matter, when did the
Shakers make (let alone invent) lap desks ?

B Man wrote:

#1 - definitely ugly. I've seen much better lap desks in Fine
#Woodworking,
etc.

#2 - Nothing is "Shaker" about this version of the item. The term
#"Shaker"
is used today in ways that would make Mother Ann Lee roll over in her
grave.

#3 - While Shakers would have used lap desks (when on the road selling
seeds, rockers, etc.), they certainly didn't invent the item. In reality,
as far as furniture goes, the Shakers "invented" very little. As most of
the carpeters (male and female) joined the community and were not born
into it, they also brought with them the skills and influences of the
"world". The style of the day was influenced by the Shaker rule of
simplicity in
construction became the Shaker style. Unfortunately, anything that
appears to be of a simple design is labeled "Shaker" in hopes it will
generate additional interest in the item.


Brian


What is Non-Shaker about this piece?

--
Saville

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html

Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm

Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm

Unquestionably Confused wrote:

Andy Dingley wrote:
What a piece of ugly - thought it was another of those Popular
Woodworking plans 8-)

What is "Shaker" about this design, and for that matter, when did the
Shakers make (let alone invent) lap desks ?

Most likely this was designed during the same era in which they came up
with that big 460v 3-phase shaper to allow for the intricate edge design
on their entertainment cabinets that they proudly displayed on their web
sites g

Perhaps they are laboring under the misconception that "Shaker" refers to
the device used in the preparation of alcoholic beverages to be consumed by
a certain Mr. Bond.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

It was somewhere outside Barstow when "B Man"
wrote:

#2 - Nothing is "Shaker" about this version of the item. The term "Shaker"
is used today in ways that would make Mother Ann Lee roll over in her grave.

Our local Borg is selling "Shaker Entertainment Centres"


#3 - While Shakers would have used lap desks (when on the road selling
seeds, rockers, etc.),

I'm not so sure. I've not seen such a lap desk, and I've seen no
records of one (if it ain't in Handberg...). Shaker writing desks are
themselves pretty rare - the millenial laws are quite specific that
they're unneccessary (and thus inappropriate) for most Shakers, other
than those with specific tasks to deal with the world outside. It
wouldn't be impossible for a "travelling seed salesman" to need one,
but then I'm not sure they really did too much travelling as part of
business either.

They certainly didn't _invent_ lap desks either - some well known
examples are much older.

Wed, Mar 2, 2005, 1:42pm (EST+5) (Andy=A0Dingley)
says:
What a piece of ugly - thought it was another of those Popular
Woodworking plans =A0 8-)
What is "Shaker" about this design, and for that matter, when did the
Shakers make (let alone invent) lap desks ?

Ugly? Well, it is a MotherEarthNews project, if I wanted pretty I
wouldn't think about going there. But, it does look ugly in the
picture; however, from the design, I don't think it would look too bad
in person. Anyway, it's a free plan.



JOAT
Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong.
- David Fasold

JOAT responds:
Ugly? Well, it is a MotherEarthNews project, if I wanted pretty I
wouldn't think about going there. But, it does look ugly in the
picture; however, from the design, I don't think it would look too bad
in person. Anyway, it's a free plan.


Ah, well. I thought it looked utilitarian, not ugly, but what do I
know?

It's a project from the Dremel files that TMEN picked up, according to
the credit.

It was somewhere outside Barstow when "Charlie Self"
wrote:

Ah, well. I thought it looked utilitarian, not ugly, but what do I
know?

Read the advice on making the breadboard ends for the lid,
particularly gluing every board.

IMHO, it's a criminal waste of good walnut to put it into a project
like this. 8-)

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:42:14 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote:

It was somewhere outside Barstow when (J T)
wrote:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/arc/194/

What a piece of ugly - thought it was another of those Popular
Woodworking plans 8-)

What is "Shaker" about this design, and for that matter, when did the
Shakers make (let alone invent) lap desks ?

Really? I did not think it was ugly at all. Not sure about the
practicality of the piece in today's world, though. Personally, I
use clipboards when working in the shop or gardens to take notes or
hold paperwork. Anyone know who invented the "lap desk?"

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 17:07:04 -0500, "B Man" wrote:

#1 - definitely ugly. I've seen much better lap desks in Fine Woodworking,
etc.

#2 - Nothing is "Shaker" about this version of the item. The term "Shaker"
is used today in ways that would make Mother Ann Lee roll over in her grave.

#3 - While Shakers would have used lap desks (when on the road selling
seeds, rockers, etc.), they certainly didn't invent the item. In reality,
as far as furniture goes, the Shakers "invented" very little. As most of
the carpeters (male and female) joined the community and were not born into
it, they also brought with them the skills and influences of the "world".
The style of the day was influenced by the Shaker rule of simplicity in
construction became the Shaker style. Unfortunately, anything that appears
to be of a simple design is labeled "Shaker" in hopes it will generate
additional interest in the item.


Brian


Brian,

I have many Shaker books, and unless they are wrong, the Shakers had
an amazing amount of inventions. I know there's been some discussion
about the circular saw invented by a sister. But certainly, the
Shakers invented many aspects of furniture building, including the
tilting feet on chairs. Not all "Shaker" furniture was plain and
simple.

Phisherman wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:42:14 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote:

It was somewhere outside Barstow when (J T)
wrote:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/arc/194/

What a piece of ugly - thought it was another of those Popular
Woodworking plans 8-)

What is "Shaker" about this design, and for that matter, when did the
Shakers make (let alone invent) lap desks ?

Really? I did not think it was ugly at all. Not sure about the
practicality of the piece in today's world, though. Personally, I
use clipboards when working in the shop or gardens to take notes or
hold paperwork. Anyone know who invented the "lap desk?"

If that's a "lap desk" then the first guy who put his valise, briefcase, or
whatever they called them when he did it in his lap to write on invented
it.

Although I suspect that it was really some Babylonian who stuck a board in
his lap for his clay tablet to sit on.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Oh I completely agree - in later years, some Shaker designs flew right in
the face of the millenium laws - quite fancy. Some of the structures took
on a highly decorative Victorian look. While it was indeed contructed by
Shakers, it is not in the true "Shaker Style".

I suppose what gets me, is it seems everywhere you look today, magazine
publishers and woodworking book authors throw the term "Shaker" around when
it is for the most part quite unfounded. The logic seems to be "prove that
they didn't have / use this" as apposed to the design being based on
something on display at Hancock or Pleasant Hill, etc.

Brian


"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 17:07:04 -0500, "B Man" wrote:

#1 - definitely ugly. I've seen much better lap desks in Fine
Woodworking,
etc.

#2 - Nothing is "Shaker" about this version of the item. The term
"Shaker"
is used today in ways that would make Mother Ann Lee roll over in her
grave.

#3 - While Shakers would have used lap desks (when on the road selling
seeds, rockers, etc.), they certainly didn't invent the item. In reality,
as far as furniture goes, the Shakers "invented" very little. As most of
the carpeters (male and female) joined the community and were not born
into
it, they also brought with them the skills and influences of the "world".
The style of the day was influenced by the Shaker rule of simplicity in
construction became the Shaker style. Unfortunately, anything that
appears
to be of a simple design is labeled "Shaker" in hopes it will generate
additional interest in the item.


Brian


Brian,

I have many Shaker books, and unless they are wrong, the Shakers had
an amazing amount of inventions. I know there's been some discussion
about the circular saw invented by a sister. But certainly, the
Shakers invented many aspects of furniture building, including the
tilting feet on chairs. Not all "Shaker" furniture was plain and
simple.

It was somewhere outside Barstow when "B Man"
wrote:

Oh I completely agree - in later years, some Shaker designs flew right in
the face of the millenium laws - quite fancy.

Which settlement was it where they gave the original office building a
makeover and went from "classic Shaker" to San Francisco Victorian
Gingerbread.

"J T" wrote in message
...
http://www.motherearthnews.com/arc/194/



Looks like a Jefferson lap desk to me.

Brent Beal wrote:
"J T" wrote in message
...
http://www.motherearthnews.com/arc/194/



Looks like a Jefferson lap desk to me.

Not much. http://www.bartleycollection.com/accessories8.htm

Not intended as a lap desk, anyway, but as a desktop writing aid.

B Man wrote:

I suppose what gets me, is it seems everywhere you look today, magazine
publishers and woodworking book authors throw the term "Shaker" around when
it is for the most part quite unfounded. The logic seems to be "prove that
they didn't have / use this" as apposed to the design being based on
something on display at Hancock or Pleasant Hill, etc.

As far as I can tell, the rule goes something like this: If it has
carving, it is Victorian. If it incorporates steel (or other "white"
metal) as part of the aesthetic, it is "Modern" or perhaps "art deco".
Otherwise it is Shaker.

Of course, the whole genus-of-furniture thing borders on silly IMO.

PK

Paul Kierstead responds:
As far as I can tell, the rule goes something like this: If it has
carving, it is Victorian. If it incorporates steel (or other "white"
metal) as part of the aesthetic, it is "Modern" or perhaps "art deco".
Otherwise it is Shaker.

Let's not forget Craftsman/Arts & Crafts/Mission if it has dark stain
and mostly straight lines.

It was somewhere outside Barstow when "Charlie Self"
wrote:

Let's not forget Craftsman/Arts & Crafts/Mission if it has dark stain
and mostly straight lines.

Except in the UK, where we don't have the 1st or 3rd and our "Arts and
Crafts" has more gingerbread on it than Hansel & Gretel's place.