Does anyone have experience working with ironwood? I have a client that
has requested its use in the construction of his bed, and I have no
experience at all with it. Looking around online I found that its from
Hawaii and very dense, and supposedly hard on tools as a result, but
was hoping for someone who could confirm or deny that from first hand
exerience.

Thanks

wrote:
Does anyone have experience working with ironwood? I have a client
that
has requested its use in the construction of his bed, and I have no
experience at all with it. Looking around online I found that its
from
Hawaii and very dense, and supposedly hard on tools as a result, but
was hoping for someone who could confirm or deny that from first hand
exerience.

Thanks

Ironwood is also known as Ipe or Pau Lope.

It has some interesting qualities.

One of the major woodworking mags ran an article entitled "Ipe, Wood or
Metal?"
within the last few months.

Fascinating.

If you like, I can locate the article for you once I get home from
work.

Gus

There are a dozen woods called ironwood, from hop hornbeam to lignum vitae.
I hadn't heard ipe calle ironwood, but okay... Some are not commercially
available

I can't think of any reason to use such a wood for a bed. They are all a
bear to work; so I suggest you get your client to better identify the wood,
and charge accordingly.

wrote:
Does anyone have experience working with ironwood? I have a client that
has requested its use in the construction of his bed, and I have no
experience at all with it. Looking around online I found that its from
Hawaii and very dense, and supposedly hard on tools as a result, but
was hoping for someone who could confirm or deny that from first hand
exerience.

You don't want to go there.

What ever price you would charge for say white oak construction,
multiply by 100 to work "ironwood".

If client still persists, add a 1000% surcharge.

HTH

Lew

wrote in message
ups.com...
Does anyone have experience working with ironwood? I have a client that
has requested its use in the construction of his bed, and I have no
experience at all with it. Looking around online I found that its from
Hawaii and very dense, and supposedly hard on tools as a result, but
was hoping for someone who could confirm or deny that from first hand
exerience.

Thanks


Tell him to pick one. So far he has simply told you that he wants a bed
built with a very hard, hard wood.
One of the most common Iron woods is Ipe. Ipe is a very common decking
material. I pay about $20 for a rough cut 1"x 6" x 8'. Keep in mind that
Ipe is 3 times harder than Oak. And, yes iron wood is hard on your tools.
You want sharp carbide tools to work it.

On 24 Jan 2005 09:21:25 -0800, wrote:

Does anyone have experience working with ironwood? I have a client that
has requested its use in the construction of his bed, and I have no
experience at all with it. Looking around online I found that its from
Hawaii and very dense, and supposedly hard on tools as a result, but
was hoping for someone who could confirm or deny that from first hand
exerience.

Thanks

First, what do you mean 'iron wood'? The name is applied to a number
of different species, generally whatever local wood is hardest and
heaviest.

Around here it means 'desert ironwood' -- a small tree with a dark,
highly figured heartwood. Pretty but it doesn't come in large pieces,
is difficult to work, dulls tools and the dust is toxic.

--RC

"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

"Gus" writes:

Ironwood is also known as Ipe or Pau Lope.

A scout camp I go to in Wisconsin has Ironwood trees all over. It sure
doesn't look like Ipe to me. We even used an Ironwood tree to make a new
flagpole for our camp site.

Brian Elfert

There is a huge variation in the appearance of woods called Ironwood.

I've worked both Hophornbeam and Ipe, and they are, IMO, not as
difficult as some others have implied. They are hard and heavy, but
sharp tools will handle them nicely. Ipe dust gave me the sniffles.


wrote:
Does anyone have experience working with ironwood? I have a client
that
has requested its use in the construction of his bed, and I have no
experience at all with it. Looking around online I found that its
from
Hawaii and very dense, and supposedly hard on tools as a result, but
was hoping for someone who could confirm or deny that from first hand
exerience.

Thanks

I've had experience with Pau Lope (also called Ipe). It's called ironwood
for good reason. It's dense, heavy stuff. IIRC if you've ever been on the
boardwalk in Atlantic City, it is made of Pau Lope because it never rots.
It's devastating to carbide. I chose to buy a bunch of cheap disposable
blades as opposed to dulling expensive ones.. Predrill for screws, or
they'll just snap off. It'd be quite extreme for use as a bed. Charge
accordingly. --dave



"Gus" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
Does anyone have experience working with ironwood? I have a client
that
has requested its use in the construction of his bed, and I have no
experience at all with it. Looking around online I found that its
from
Hawaii and very dense, and supposedly hard on tools as a result, but
was hoping for someone who could confirm or deny that from first hand
exerience.

Thanks

Ironwood is also known as Ipe or Pau Lope.

It has some interesting qualities.

One of the major woodworking mags ran an article entitled "Ipe, Wood or
Metal?"
within the last few months.

Fascinating.

If you like, I can locate the article for you once I get home from
work.

Gus

"Gus" wrote in message

Ironwood is also known as Ipe or Pau Lope.

Some iron woods are known as Ipe.

"Dave Jackson" wrote in message
ink.net...
I've had experience with Pau Lope (also called Ipe). It's called ironwood
for good reason. It's dense, heavy stuff. IIRC if you've ever been on
the boardwalk in Atlantic City, it is made of Pau Lope because it never
rots. It's devastating to carbide. I chose to buy a bunch of cheap
disposable blades as opposed to dulling expensive ones.. Predrill for
screws, or they'll just snap off. It'd be quite extreme for use as a bed.
Charge accordingly. --dave


I plunge cut hundreds of 1.5" long slots 3/8" deep and wide in Ipe and have
had better luck with a 4 flute HSS end mill bit than with a carbide bit. I
also resaw and make hundreds of cut into Ipe with a Forrest WWII blade. I
would say that Ipe is tough on carbide but certainly would not say that it
is devastating to carbide unless the carbide is a cheaper grade that Forrest
uses.

"ed_h" wrote in message
oups.com...
There is a huge variation in the appearance of woods called Ironwood.

I've worked both Hophornbeam and Ipe, and they are, IMO, not as
difficult as some others have implied. They are hard and heavy, but
sharp tools will handle them nicely. Ipe dust gave me the sniffles.


LOL... Have you gotten the dust on a sweaty arm yet? It turns blood red.

Man, i put an indoor deck around a exercise pool coupla years ago out of
Ipe. The stuff seemed to dull the freud blades i bought for the TS and MS
almost to the point of needing sharpened before lunchtime the first day!
After that i bought the cheapest blades money could buy just to keep the
project moving along. In retrospect, it may have been wiser to invest in
better quality blades. Thanks for the insight! --dave





wrote in message
. com...

"Dave Jackson" wrote in message
ink.net...
I've had experience with Pau Lope (also called Ipe). It's called
ironwood for good reason. It's dense, heavy stuff. IIRC if you've ever
been on the boardwalk in Atlantic City, it is made of Pau Lope because it
never rots. It's devastating to carbide. I chose to buy a bunch of cheap
disposable blades as opposed to dulling expensive ones.. Predrill for
screws, or they'll just snap off. It'd be quite extreme for use as a
bed. Charge accordingly. --dave


I plunge cut hundreds of 1.5" long slots 3/8" deep and wide in Ipe and
have had better luck with a 4 flute HSS end mill bit than with a carbide
bit. I also resaw and make hundreds of cut into Ipe with a Forrest WWII
blade. I would say that Ipe is tough on carbide but certainly would not
say that it is devastating to carbide unless the carbide is a cheaper
grade that Forrest uses.

Does anyone have experience working with ironwood? I have a client that
has requested its use in the construction of his bed, and I have no
experience at all with it. Looking around online I found that its from
Hawaii and very dense, and supposedly hard on tools as a result, but
was hoping for someone who could confirm or deny that from first hand
exerience.


The only thing I can tell you is that the harder / dryer the wood, the
easier it is to drill in a standard fashion. Less "gummy"a nd the chips
move away easier...

For instance, I'll drill Oak any day before I do Pine...

Ironwood is supposedly on the harder end of the spectrum so I would assume
it might be harder to turn or work but easier to drill.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
http://www.autodrill.com
http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com

V8013

My eBay: http://tinyurl.com/4hpnc

Around here it means 'desert ironwood' -- a small tree with a dark,
highly figured heartwood. Pretty but it doesn't come in large pieces,
is difficult to work, dulls tools and the dust is toxic.

it can be some of the most beautiful wood too. with all of the silica it really
can get a deep grain to it. smells like a dead animal though (G)

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

I've worked both Hophornbeam and Ipe, and they are, IMO, not as
difficult as some others have implied. They are hard and heavy, but
sharp tools will handle them nicely. Ipe dust gave me the sniffles.

I agree I cut ipe all of the time and it is fine. myself I rather work with
tropicals then American woods. I can rip 8/4 purpleheart far easier then 8/4
maple.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Leon wrote:
"ed_h" wrote in message
oups.com...
There is a huge variation in the appearance of woods called
Ironwood.

I've worked both Hophornbeam and Ipe, and they are, IMO, not as
difficult as some others have implied. They are hard and heavy,
but
sharp tools will handle them nicely. Ipe dust gave me the
sniffles.


LOL... Have you gotten the dust on a sweaty arm yet? It turns blood
red.

It's the strangest thing. The wood is brown, the sawdust is bright
yellow, but it stains things red. I had pink hair for a week.

It's the strangest thing. The wood is brown, the sawdust is bright
yellow, but it stains things red. I had pink hair for a week.

I never noticed any stains.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

So back to the drawing board with the whole making the bed. No
ironwood, regardless the actual species...

Now, why does Steve Knight think that purpleheart is easier to rip than
maple?

So back to the drawing board with the whole making the bed. No
ironwood, regardless the actual species...

Now, why does Steve Knight think that purpleheart is easier to rip than
maple?


You can do it if you want to work with Ipe, because it is commonly available
as decking everywhere. Sold priced in linear feet. Super strong wood, I can get
it at $2.70. Steve Knight makes handplanes with it.

--
Alex
cravdraa - at - yahoo - dot - comment
http://www.e-sword.net/ (free excellent windows bible)

"AAvK" wrote in message
news:lwLJd.9247$rv.1116@fed1read03...


You can do it if you want to work with Ipe, because it is commonly
available
as decking everywhere. Sold priced in linear feet. Super strong wood, I
can get
it at $2.70. Steve Knight makes handplanes with it.

Not with Ipe decking, The decking is still wet so to speak and will shrink
more as it dries.

Now, why does Steve Knight think that purpleheart is easier to rip than
maple?

I pretty much find all tropicals easier to rip then American woods. but a lot of
it is they don't warp and bind like too fast dried woods we get. Plus the wood
is more dense and that makes cutting easier. the grain and hardness really makes
a difference on how wood cuts

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

I pretty much find all tropicals easier to rip then American woods. but a lot of
it is they don't warp and bind like too fast dried woods we get. Plus the wood
is more dense and that makes cutting easier. the grain and hardness really makes
a difference on how wood cuts

--
Knight-Toolworks


When I was ripping my maple for benchtop laminations, one of the "elders" in the adult
ed. class told me "maple is a bitch". He showed me to rip it three saw blade levels "up"
at a time, per full cut, just to cut through 8/4 stock of hard rock. The old Chinese fence
had to be adjusted three times PER BOARD to be ripped... so you are quite right. This
was a 3hp 12" cab. table saw..."Yuang Kuang" brand or some **** like that (donated). It
was some seriously hard work for me as a new learner. Each rip was very slow, total
of 36 rips in 12 full cuts and 12 fence adjustments through 4 8/4 boards, and with a
newly sharpened blade too!

--
Alex
cravdraa - at - yahoo - dot - comment
http://www.e-sword.net/ (free excellent windows bible)

"AAvK" wrote in message
news:wK1Kd.9357$rv.8447@fed1read03...


When I was ripping my maple for benchtop laminations, one of the "elders"
in the adult
ed. class told me "maple is a bitch". He showed me to rip it three saw
blade levels "up"
at a time, per full cut, just to cut through 8/4 stock of hard rock. The
old Chinese fence
had to be adjusted three times PER BOARD to be ripped... so you are quite
right. This
was a 3hp 12" cab. table saw..."Yuang Kuang" brand or some **** like that
(donated). It
was some seriously hard work for me as a new learner. Each rip was very
slow, total
of 36 rips in 12 full cuts and 12 fence adjustments through 4 8/4 boards,
and with a
newly sharpened blade too!


Get another instructor. Any time the blade remains buried in the cut it's
under stress from poorly ejected or unejected waste.

Get the blade up so the gullets come into play and feed moderately. If the
blade slows, ease the feed rate. Also helps to have a real rip blade versus
a combination, though the WW folks will no doubt chime in with endorsements.
I suppose if I had spent that much on a blade I'd try and justify it too.

Get the blade up so the gullets come into play and feed moderately. If the
blade slows, ease the feed rate. Also helps to have a real rip blade versus
a combination, though the WW folks will no doubt chime in with endorsements.
I suppose if I had spent that much on a blade I'd try and justify it too.


depends on the blade. I have used 20 and 24t 1/8" kerf rip blades in my jet
contractors saw and even thin kerf blades. but not have cut as fast or as clean
as my Forrest Woodworker II 30t blade. it cuts my tropicals faster and with else
burning too. the only thing it does worse is wood when it binds it binds worse
on it then the rip. though better then other blades.
now I can't say how this setup would work with American woods though but it
works great on tropicals.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

"Steve Knight" wrote in message
...

Get the blade up so the gullets come into play and feed moderately. If
the
blade slows, ease the feed rate. Also helps to have a real rip blade
versus
a combination, though the WW folks will no doubt chime in with
endorsements.
I suppose if I had spent that much on a blade I'd try and justify it too.


depends on the blade. I have used 20 and 24t 1/8" kerf rip blades in my
jet
contractors saw and even thin kerf blades. but not have cut as fast or as
clean
as my Forrest Woodworker II 30t blade. it cuts my tropicals faster and
with else
burning too. the only thing it does worse is wood when it binds it binds
worse
on it then the rip. though better then other blades.
now I can't say how this setup would work with American woods though but
it
works great on tropicals.


QED

"George" george@least wrote in message
...


Also helps to have a real rip blade versus
a combination, though the WW folks will no doubt chime in with
endorsements.
I suppose if I had spent that much on a blade I'd try and justify it too.


;~) Perhaps with some combo or general blades but I do have the WWII 30
tooth and find ripping with it faster than my seldom used Systematic rip
blade. As far as justification, I bought another WWII after using my first
WWII for 2 years. I simply did not want to be with out that blade when it
goes in for a tune up.

wrote:
Does anyone have experience working with ironwood? I have a client that
has requested its use in the construction of his bed, and I have no
experience at all with it. Looking around online I found that its from
Hawaii and very dense, and supposedly hard on tools as a result, but
was hoping for someone who could confirm or deny that from first hand
exerience.

Thanks

You really need to have your client identify "which" ironwood is
intended as there are many woods that have picked up that name over the
centuries. Basically when Europeans came into a new area they wound up
calling whatever the hardest heaviest wood was "ironwood" and
colloquially even more woods pick up that name in small localities.

As a sometimes turner when someone says "ironwood" to me I think of
"desert ironwood" or Olneya tesota
http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/desert_ironwood.htm or
http://www.woodpens.com/show_Desert_Ironwood.html because that is what
I've used most. It might make beautiful furniture but I'm too poor to
afford it in any more than small flitches. Fantastically hard material
that turns beautifully and can be polished just like stone BTW.
--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

wrote:

So back to the drawing board with the whole making the bed. No
ironwood, regardless the actual species...

Stop. Find out what specific wood he wants--"ironwood" covers a huge
range--eucalypti, acacias, and several other geni all have members that
somewhere, sometime have been described as "ironwood"--get a little bit,
and make a box or a paperweight or something else small that floats your
boat. If you find that working it sucks then you can bail on the project.

Just remember to treat it like a hardened metal or very strong
plastic--don't count on it having any give to it. Find out what "special
characteristics" like the lapochol in Ipe you'll have to deal with and what
if any special procedures you need to apply when you glue it. And remember
that the stuff is _heavy_.

You may find that you like the stuff.


Now, why does Steve Knight think that purpleheart is easier to rip than
maple?

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

30 years ago while I was working in Thailand, the military base I was
working at (as a civilian) was being shut down, and we were all turned into
'carpenters' and had to build crates to pack up the entire site.

A lot of the real carpentry work was done by locals, and they brought in
truckload after truckload of both 3/4" Philip. Mahogny plywood and 4x4's,
etc.. made of 'Ironwood'.

Now keep in mind that at the time my field was electronics and not
woodworking, but boy do I remember that damn ironwood.

We had to change the blade in our table saw at least 3 times a day due to
cutting that ironwood.

It was funny when it came time to drive nails into the ironwood. We manly
americans, would simply reach for the bigger hammer when the one we chose
first refused to drive the nail into the wood. The nail would simply bend
right over. Of course no matter how big of a hammer we tried, we were never
able to drive a nail into the ironwood. We finally ending up resorting to
drilling pilot holes for all the nails AND soaping the nails.

But then the local carpenters would come along, (typical Thai carpenter was
about 4' 6" it seemed and would weigh perhaps 85 lbs soaking wet) with what
seems an afully small hammer (by our manly standards at least) with a handle
that seemed to be about 6" longer than our hammers, and tap tap tap, the
nail was driven right into the ironwood. All the way. No pilot holes. No
soaping. Nothing else, just a simple tap tap tap.

The would just laugh at us with our 6 lb' sledge and pilot holes, etc....

They'd just walk up with that little hammer with the long handle and tap tap
tap. I guess it does make a difference with a bit of leverage and the
ability to hit the nail head square every time....

When our belongings got crated up to be sent home, the crates were made of
the ironwood.

By the time by belongings made it back to the states, I was off on another
job in Alaska, but I told my parents that perhaps the next door neighbor
(retired carpenter that still did cabinetry) might be interested in the
ironwood, but I found out later that when he saw it was ironwood, he wanted
nothing to do with it.


"Joe" wrote in message
...
Does anyone have experience working with ironwood? I have a client that
has requested its use in the construction of his bed, and I have no
experience at all with it. Looking around online I found that its from
Hawaii and very dense, and supposedly hard on tools as a result, but
was hoping for someone who could confirm or deny that from first hand
exerience.


The only thing I can tell you is that the harder / dryer the wood, the
easier it is to drill in a standard fashion. Less "gummy"a nd the chips
move away easier...

For instance, I'll drill Oak any day before I do Pine...

Ironwood is supposedly on the harder end of the spectrum so I would assume
it might be harder to turn or work but easier to drill.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
http://www.autodrill.com
http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com

V8013

My eBay: http://tinyurl.com/4hpnc