On Mar 20, 11:16*am, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/20/2012 12:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:









On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 03:18:40 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino
*wrote:

On Mar 20, 1:42 am, Larry
wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 20:07:10 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino

*wrote:
On Mar 19, 10:16 pm, tiredofspamnospam.nospam.com *wrote:
Please take these constructively. I'm sure you learned a lot during this
build.

1. Your Splines *grain is going in the wrong direction. You want this to
provide extra support, so you set the grain to go 90 degrees to what you
have them.

Hadn't thought of that. I can see now how the strength of the spline
would be greater "your" way, but I think it should be adequate in this
application as is.

I -thought- I saw a 'wrong' spline there. If the grain direction is
the same as that of the stile (which I thought I saw) it can break
very easily, especially with the little gaps you had. Slam the door
hard once and it could be CURTAINS! *G'luck!

The grain runs in the same direction as the stiles, vertically. *See
below

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...t-721576277517....

Oops, not the safest way.

By which you mean the small block of oak and the fingers near the miter
saw blade? I guess you're right. I am pretty cautious though, especially
as one of my other uses for my fingers is at the piano (a much more
advanced skill than woodworking, with better cash-flow too)

*Those look to be 1/4" rather than 1/8".

Better.

The grooves are 7/32 and splines fit snugly (one might say "tightly" on
the first door)

As for the gap, it's only on the first door I made. The splines were
tighter than they should have been, and I guess a little wider as
well. I fixed that problem (with a block plane) *for the second door..

Goodgood.

What, you didn't make it to that photo ("shaving down splines")? Eight
of the 200 people who viewed the finished desk made it all the way
through the set.

I'm something of a photo buff too. I've been amusing myself documenting
the project. Some of the "dramatic" lighting was courtesy of a couple of
reflector work lights.

Another group that you might be interested in joining where everyone
shows pictures of their final products is www.Lumberjocks.com. You can
get a lot of good ideas from looking at what others have done.

Al

On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:16:03 -0400, Greg Guarino
wrote:

On 3/20/2012 12:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 03:18:40 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino
wrote:

On Mar 20, 1:42 am, Larry
wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 20:07:10 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino

wrote:
On Mar 19, 10:16 pm, tiredofspamnospam.nospam.com wrote:
Please take these constructively. I'm sure you learned a lot during this
build.

1. Your Splines grain is going in the wrong direction. You want this to
provide extra support, so you set the grain to go 90 degrees to what you
have them.

Hadn't thought of that. I can see now how the strength of the spline
would be greater "your" way, but I think it should be adequate in this
application as is.

I -thought- I saw a 'wrong' spline there. If the grain direction is
the same as that of the stile (which I thought I saw) it can break
very easily, especially with the little gaps you had. Slam the door
hard once and it could be CURTAINS! G'luck!

The grain runs in the same direction as the stiles, vertically. See
below

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...0027/lightbox/

Oops, not the safest way.

By which you mean the small block of oak and the fingers near the miter
saw blade? I guess you're right. I am pretty cautious though, especially
as one of my other uses for my fingers is at the piano (a much more
advanced skill than woodworking, with better cash-flow too)

Those look to be 1/4" rather than 1/8".
Better.

The grooves are 7/32 and splines fit snugly (one might say "tightly" on
the first door)

I was going to predict an unusually quick ending for the doors, Greg,
but you did make them -much- stronger y using the plywood. They'll
hold.


As for the gap, it's only on the first door I made. The splines were
tighter than they should have been, and I guess a little wider as
well. I fixed that problem (with a block plane) for the second door.

Goodgood.

What, you didn't make it to that photo ("shaving down splines")? Eight
of the 200 people who viewed the finished desk made it all the way
through the set.

Yeah, I saw that. I figured the groove was 1/3 of the 3/4" stock.


I'm something of a photo buff too. I've been amusing myself documenting
the project. Some of the "dramatic" lighting was courtesy of a couple of
reflector work lights.

A real photo buff would have had photographic studio lighting parts.
Mine's single and white, like me, but similar to this one. g
http://tinyurl.com/88sg4td ,

or this great deal
http://tinyurl.com/7s695b8

--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix

On Mar 20, 9:13*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:16:03 -0400, Greg Guarino
wrote:

On 3/20/2012 12:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 03:18:40 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino

A real photo buff would have had photographic studio lighting parts.
Mine's single and white, like me, but similar to this one. *ghttp://tinyurl.com/88sg4td,

or this great deal *http://tinyurl.com/7s695b8

Nah. I'm an available light guy, usually outdoors. Next time you have
a day or two to waste check out the 1400 or so non-woodworking photos
I have on Flickr.

On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 01:59:52 -0700, "CW" wrote:


The computer has been my main
pastime lately. Hopefully, that will change here in a few months. Every
experience is a learning experience if you look at it in the right way. I
now firmly believe that every architect should have to spend a couple of
months in a wheelchair before they can get their degree. Pulled into a
parking lot a while back and found the handicapped parking spaces right in
front of the entrance. Win. Wheelchair ramp on the other side of parking
lot. Fail. I don't use handicapped parking as I feel that there are others
that need them worse than I do but I do notice. Another place. Nice ramp
parallel to building leading to entrance. Win. Entrance door opens out
blocking ramp. Fail. Then we get to the inside. Deep pile carpeting. Like
rolling through mud. Halls so narrow that making a 90 degree turn into a
room is impossible. Many of these things could be taken care of in the
design process and without a great deal, or no, expense. Just a bit of
thought.

Young healthy people never think of those things when designing. Laws
now force them to a point to make access. I'm even surprised at some
hospitals and medical centers that have narrow doorways instead of one
just a few inches wider.

If architects and interior designers had to use crutches and a
wheelchair for a week, you'd see a lot of changes in the future.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...


Young healthy people never think of those things when designing. Laws
now force them to a point to make access. I'm even surprised at some
hospitals and medical centers that have narrow doorways instead of one
just a few inches wider.

If architects and interior designers had to use crutches and a
wheelchair for a week, you'd see a lot of changes in the future.


How about all the computer programs and graphic displays that only allow
people who have the eye sight of an eagle to use them? Again, created by
young people who obviously don't have a clue how the rest of us live.

On 3/20/2012 9:48 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:

How about all the computer programs and graphic displays that only allow
people who have the eye sight of an eagle to use them? Again, created by
young people who obviously don't have a clue how the rest of us live.



Or the arrogance of those who think we should all do it their way...
Or it's our fault for being stupid...

On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 23:40:33 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 3/20/2012 9:48 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:

How about all the computer programs and graphic displays that only allow
people who have the eye sight of an eagle to use them? Again, created by
young people who obviously don't have a clue how the rest of us live.



Or the arrogance of those who think we should all do it their way...
Or it's our fault for being stupid...

Hey, wait a minute. My way is the right way. The rest of the world is
often wrong.

On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino
wrote:

On Mar 20, 9:13*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:16:03 -0400, Greg Guarino
wrote:

On 3/20/2012 12:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 03:18:40 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino

A real photo buff would have had photographic studio lighting parts.
Mine's single and white, like me, but similar to this one. *ghttp://tinyurl.com/88sg4td,

or this great deal *http://tinyurl.com/7s695b8

Nah. I'm an available light guy, usually outdoors.

LUDDITE!


Next time you have
a day or two to waste check out the 1400 or so non-woodworking photos
I have on Flickr.

I already did that the last time you mentioned it. But I need to get
the computer talking to my Gecko G540 on LPT3 first, then build my CNC
router, then make some money...

--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix

On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 22:48:50 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net wrote:



"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
.. .


Young healthy people never think of those things when designing. Laws
now force them to a point to make access. I'm even surprised at some
hospitals and medical centers that have narrow doorways instead of one
just a few inches wider.

If architects and interior designers had to use crutches and a
wheelchair for a week, you'd see a lot of changes in the future.


How about all the computer programs and graphic displays that only allow
people who have the eye sight of an eagle to use them? Again, created by
young people who obviously don't have a clue how the rest of us live.

That's why Windows and browsers allow for different font sizes.
I'll leave doing the Internet via cell phone to kids who can -see-
that little 3.4" screen. Sheesh!

--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix

"Larry Jaques" wrote ...
"Lee Michaels" wrote:

How about all the computer programs and graphic displays that only allow
people who have the eye sight of an eagle to use them? Again, created by
young people who obviously don't have a clue how the rest of us live.

That's why Windows and browsers allow for different font sizes.
I'll leave doing the Internet via cell phone to kids who can -see-
that little 3.4" screen. Sheesh!

I use those all the time. But the color schemes, font choices, graphic
design, etc. make it very difficult to read. And many web sites "lock in" a
tiny font size. They will not allow you to change the font size. I was at
the library the other day and printed out something that a friend requested.
The print was so tiny, we could not read with a magnifying glass! And there
was no way that the text could be made bigger, either on the screen or
printed.

And all these web pages that are barely visible. White background with very
pale blue fonts? Or pale yellow fonts?? The list goes on.

Microsoft makes a big deal about making some display options available for
visually impaired people. One such choice is the high contrast color
scheme. It blanks out half of the page! Including Microsoft's own help
menus and the display controls! I learned long ago that if you have vision
or hearing problems, the world does little to accommodate you.

Another thing, the old analog TV sets all had headphone jacks. That way I
could plug in a set of headphones if I wanted to listen to some music, etc.
The new digital flat screens?? Not so much. At least two thirds of them
have no headphone jacks at all. And the ones who do, they are all located
in the back And if this thing is put into any kind of furniture, you would
not be able to reach in back to plug in the head phones. And you would need
an extension cable any way because the jack is so much further away.

Lee Michaels wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote ...
"Lee Michaels" wrote:

How about all the computer programs and graphic displays that only allow
people who have the eye sight of an eagle to use them? Again, created by
young people who obviously don't have a clue how the rest of us live.

That's why Windows and browsers allow for different font sizes.
I'll leave doing the Internet via cell phone to kids who can -see-
that little 3.4" screen. Sheesh!

I use those all the time. But the color schemes, font choices, graphic
design, etc. make it very difficult to read. And many web sites "lock
in" a tiny font size. They will not allow you to change the font size. I
was at the library the other day and printed out something that a friend
requested. The print was so tiny, we could not read with a magnifying
glass! And there was no way that the text could be made bigger, either
on the screen or printed.

And all these web pages that are barely visible. White background with
very pale blue fonts? Or pale yellow fonts?? The list goes on.

Microsoft makes a big deal about making some display options available
for visually impaired people. One such choice is the high contrast color
scheme. It blanks out half of the page! Including Microsoft's own help
menus and the display controls! I learned long ago that if you have
vision or hearing problems, the world does little to accommodate you.

It's "tough beans" if you have trouble with artificial preservatives or
artificial flavors too! I learned that first hand. It's a "game of
numbers" and industry (or "the world" as you describe it) is not
concerned about a few victoms.



Another thing, the old analog TV sets all had headphone jacks. That way
I could plug in a set of headphones if I wanted to listen to some music,
etc. The new digital flat screens?? Not so much. At least two thirds of
them have no headphone jacks at all. And the ones who do, they are all
located in the back And if this thing is put into any kind of furniture,
you would not be able to reach in back to plug in the head phones. And
you would need an extension cable any way because the jack is so much
further away.

On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:11:32 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net wrote:



"Larry Jaques" wrote ...
"Lee Michaels" wrote:

How about all the computer programs and graphic displays that only allow
people who have the eye sight of an eagle to use them? Again, created by
young people who obviously don't have a clue how the rest of us live.

That's why Windows and browsers allow for different font sizes.
I'll leave doing the Internet via cell phone to kids who can -see-
that little 3.4" screen. Sheesh!

I use those all the time. But the color schemes, font choices, graphic
design, etc. make it very difficult to read. And many web sites "lock in" a
tiny font size. They will not allow you to change the font size. I was at
the library the other day and printed out something that a friend requested.
The print was so tiny, we could not read with a magnifying glass! And there
was no way that the text could be made bigger, either on the screen or
printed.

And all these web pages that are barely visible. White background with very
pale blue fonts? Or pale yellow fonts?? The list goes on.

Bad design. But read the docs on your browser to see how to set
defaults.


Microsoft makes a big deal about making some display options available for
visually impaired people. One such choice is the high contrast color
scheme. It blanks out half of the page! Including Microsoft's own help
menus and the display controls! I learned long ago that if you have vision
or hearing problems, the world does little to accommodate you.

Yeah, that sucks.


Another thing, the old analog TV sets all had headphone jacks. That way I
could plug in a set of headphones if I wanted to listen to some music, etc.
The new digital flat screens?? Not so much. At least two thirds of them
have no headphone jacks at all. And the ones who do, they are all located
in the back And if this thing is put into any kind of furniture, you would
not be able to reach in back to plug in the head phones. And you would need
an extension cable any way because the jack is so much further away.

Complain to the flatscreen and furniture manufacturers.

--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix

On 03/21/2012 11:01 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:11:32 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net wrote:



"Larry Jaques" wrote ...
"Lee Michaels" wrote:

How about all the computer programs and graphic displays that only allow
people who have the eye sight of an eagle to use them? Again, created by
young people who obviously don't have a clue how the rest of us live.

That's why Windows and browsers allow for different font sizes.
I'll leave doing the Internet via cell phone to kids who can -see-
that little 3.4" screen. Sheesh!

I use those all the time. But the color schemes, font choices, graphic
design, etc. make it very difficult to read. And many web sites "lock in" a
tiny font size. They will not allow you to change the font size. I was at
the library the other day and printed out something that a friend requested.
The print was so tiny, we could not read with a magnifying glass! And there
was no way that the text could be made bigger, either on the screen or
printed.

And all these web pages that are barely visible. White background with very
pale blue fonts? Or pale yellow fonts?? The list goes on.

Bad design. But read the docs on your browser to see how to set
defaults.

CTRL+ makes 'em bigger and CTRL- makes 'em smaller, at least for mozilla
products, chrome, and apparently even IE.

In LibreOffice and OpenOffice, view-zoom and select variable and then a
percentage.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:
furniture manufacturers.

Errr, this is a woodworking group!

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 22:48:50 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net wrote:



"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...


Young healthy people never think of those things when designing.
Laws now force them to a point to make access. I'm even surprised
at some hospitals and medical centers that have narrow doorways
instead of one just a few inches wider.

If architects and interior designers had to use crutches and a
wheelchair for a week, you'd see a lot of changes in the future.


How about all the computer programs and graphic displays that only
allow people who have the eye sight of an eagle to use them? Again,
created by young people who obviously don't have a clue how the rest
of us live.

That's why Windows and browsers allow for different font sizes.
I'll leave doing the Internet via cell phone to kids who can -see-
that little 3.4" screen. Sheesh!

Likewise my android allows me to scale up a site and then to reformat it to
fit the screen at the increased font size. What is all of this crying I'm
hearing? We get old. Our eye sight fails. Our hearing fails. Listen to
this group of old timers here - complaining and blaming it on inconsiderate
young people. Come on guys...

--

-Mike-

On 3/21/2012 10:46 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 22:48:50 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net wrote:



"Ed wrote in message
...


Young healthy people never think of those things when designing. Laws
now force them to a point to make access. I'm even surprised at some
hospitals and medical centers that have narrow doorways instead of one
just a few inches wider.

If architects and interior designers had to use crutches and a
wheelchair for a week, you'd see a lot of changes in the future.


How about all the computer programs and graphic displays that only allow
people who have the eye sight of an eagle to use them? Again, created by
young people who obviously don't have a clue how the rest of us live.

That's why Windows and browsers allow for different font sizes.
I'll leave doing the Internet via cell phone to kids who can -see-
that little 3.4" screen. Sheesh!

--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix


Those web sites they browse with cell phones are not normal full size
screens. They just done't fit!

I've asked a bunch of questions here and have gleaned quite a bit of
useful info from the 15 or so most prolific regulars. But my Flickr
(photo) account tells me that about 110 people viewed the photo linked
above today. Interesting.

42

On 3/21/2012 7:46 PM, Zz Yzx wrote:
I've asked a bunch of questions here and have gleaned quite a bit of
useful info from the 15 or so most prolific regulars. But my Flickr
(photo) account tells me that about 110 people viewed the photo linked
above today. Interesting.

42


"Good Answer!"

On 3/21/2012 11:43 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino
wrote:

On Mar 20, 9:13 pm, Larry
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:16:03 -0400, Greg
wrote:

On 3/20/2012 12:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 03:18:40 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino

A real photo buff would have had photographic studio lighting parts.
Mine's single and white, like me, but similar to this one.ghttp://tinyurl.com/88sg4td,

or this great deal http://tinyurl.com/7s695b8

Nah. I'm an available light guy, usually outdoors.

LUDDITE!


Next time you have
a day or two to waste check out the 1400 or so non-woodworking photos
I have on Flickr.

I already did that the last time you mentioned it. But I need to get
the computer talking to my Gecko G540 on LPT3 first, then build my CNC
router, then make some money...


I'll take an Eiffel Tower then, as big as you can manage. And an alp, if
it's not too much bother.

So what do you use the umbrella for? (seriously) Portraits? Pics of your
work? Rain? Are CFLs reasonable color-wise these days? Or at least
correctable in some way? Aren't there spikes in the spectrum, or am I
dealing with old information (and old brain cells to hold it in) ?

On 3/22/2012 12:39 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/21/2012 11:43 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino
wrote:

On Mar 20, 9:13 pm, Larry
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:16:03 -0400, Greg
wrote:

On 3/20/2012 12:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 03:18:40 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino

A real photo buff would have had photographic studio lighting
parts. Mine's single and white, like me, but similar to this
one.ghttp://tinyurl.com/88sg4td, or this great deal
http://tinyurl.com/7s695b8

Nah. I'm an available light guy, usually outdoors.

LUDDITE!


Next time you have
a day or two to waste check out the 1400 or so non-woodworking
photos I have on Flickr.

I already did that the last time you mentioned it. But I need to get
the computer talking to my Gecko G540 on LPT3 first, then build my
CNC router, then make some money...


I'll take an Eiffel Tower then, as big as you can manage. And an alp,
if it's not too much bother.

So what do you use the umbrella for? (seriously) Portraits? Pics of
your work? Rain? Are CFLs reasonable color-wise these days? Or at
least correctable in some way? Aren't there spikes in the spectrum,
or am I dealing with old information (and old brain cells to hold it
in) ?

The only purpose of umbrellas (for lighting) is to increase the size of the
light source relative to the subject; doing so results in softer, more
diffuse shadows and highlights.

Although I don't use them myself, I'm acquainted with the purpose of
various "soft" lighting techniques. I was wondering what *he* used the
umbrella for.

Any fluorescent, CFL or not, is deficient in red.

I suppose what I'm really wondering is whether the deficiency is smooth
enough and comparable enough between brands and models to be compensated
for. This is mostly just a point of curiosity; I had not seen cfls used
as photo lighting before, although Kino-Flos are used in the movie
industry.

Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/21/2012 11:43 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino
wrote:

On Mar 20, 9:13 pm, Larry
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:16:03 -0400, Greg
wrote:

On 3/20/2012 12:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 03:18:40 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino

A real photo buff would have had photographic studio lighting
parts. Mine's single and white, like me, but similar to this
one.ghttp://tinyurl.com/88sg4td, or this great deal
http://tinyurl.com/7s695b8

Nah. I'm an available light guy, usually outdoors.

LUDDITE!


Next time you have
a day or two to waste check out the 1400 or so non-woodworking
photos I have on Flickr.

I already did that the last time you mentioned it. But I need to get
the computer talking to my Gecko G540 on LPT3 first, then build my
CNC router, then make some money...


I'll take an Eiffel Tower then, as big as you can manage. And an alp,
if it's not too much bother.

So what do you use the umbrella for? (seriously) Portraits? Pics of
your work? Rain? Are CFLs reasonable color-wise these days? Or at
least correctable in some way? Aren't there spikes in the spectrum,
or am I dealing with old information (and old brain cells to hold it
in) ?

The only purpose of umbrellas (for lighting) is to increase the size of the
light source relative to the subject; doing so results in softer, more
diffuse shadows and highlights.

Any fluorescent, CFL or not, is deficient in red.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 10:29:08 -0400, Greg Guarino
wrote:

On 3/21/2012 11:43 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino
wrote:

On Mar 20, 9:13 pm, Larry
wrote:
or this great deal http://tinyurl.com/7s695b8

Nah. I'm an available light guy, usually outdoors.

LUDDITE!


Next time you have
a day or two to waste check out the 1400 or so non-woodworking photos
I have on Flickr.

I already did that the last time you mentioned it. But I need to get
the computer talking to my Gecko G540 on LPT3 first, then build my CNC
router, then make some money...

I just found out that the new 64-bit computers can't use parallel
ports. I need an extra SmoothStepper motion control board at $155.
Anyone use them? Reviews?


I'll take an Eiffel Tower then, as big as you can manage. And an alp, if
it's not too much bother.

It is. What, I say "What do you think a CNC router is, son?"


So what do you use the umbrella for? (seriously) Portraits? Pics of your
work? Rain?

It can be used two ways. First, as a reflector. Second, as a direct
diffuser.

A light bulb shines a bright dot in the reflection off the furniture.
An umbrella diffuses it nicely, either way.

If your project is small, you can use a light box for the same
purpose, to prevent any single light source from glaring.

Are CFLs reasonable color-wise these days? Or at least
correctable in some way? Aren't there spikes in the spectrum, or am I
dealing with old information (and old brain cells to hold it in) ?

CFLs come in all sorts of color temps nowadays, but a nice daylight
bulb can be tempered to amber by the addition of an incandescent bulb
if you simply MUST yellow the damned photgraph. Many of the early
problems have been worked out (in both the bulbs and the CCDs) over
the years.

--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:13:37 -0400, Greg Guarino
wrote:

On 3/22/2012 12:39 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On 3/21/2012 11:43 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino
wrote:

On Mar 20, 9:13 pm, Larry
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:16:03 -0400, Greg
wrote:

On 3/20/2012 12:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 03:18:40 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino

A real photo buff would have had photographic studio lighting
parts. Mine's single and white, like me, but similar to this
one.ghttp://tinyurl.com/88sg4td, or this great deal
http://tinyurl.com/7s695b8

Nah. I'm an available light guy, usually outdoors.

LUDDITE!


Next time you have
a day or two to waste check out the 1400 or so non-woodworking
photos I have on Flickr.

I already did that the last time you mentioned it. But I need to get
the computer talking to my Gecko G540 on LPT3 first, then build my
CNC router, then make some money...


I'll take an Eiffel Tower then, as big as you can manage. And an alp,
if it's not too much bother.

So what do you use the umbrella for? (seriously) Portraits? Pics of
your work? Rain? Are CFLs reasonable color-wise these days? Or at
least correctable in some way? Aren't there spikes in the spectrum,
or am I dealing with old information (and old brain cells to hold it
in) ?

The only purpose of umbrellas (for lighting) is to increase the size of the
light source relative to the subject; doing so results in softer, more
diffuse shadows and highlights.

Although I don't use them myself, I'm acquainted with the purpose of
various "soft" lighting techniques. I was wondering what *he* used the
umbrella for.

Right, reduced shadows and diffused, equalized lighting.


Any fluorescent, CFL or not, is deficient in red.

I suppose what I'm really wondering is whether the deficiency is smooth
enough and comparable enough between brands and models to be compensated
for. This is mostly just a point of curiosity; I had not seen cfls used
as photo lighting before, although Kino-Flos are used in the movie
industry.

Check with your camera mfgr, too. They included profiles in the
cameras to deal with fluor lighting and incan lighting, as well as
outdoor, indoor, and night profiles, colorwise. Use any light you
like unless you're a strictly manual kind of guy, Luddite.

--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix

On 3/22/2012 12:39 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 10:29:08 -0400, Greg
wrote:

On 3/21/2012 11:43 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino
wrote:

On Mar 20, 9:13 pm, Larry
wrote:
or this great deal http://tinyurl.com/7s695b8

Nah. I'm an available light guy, usually outdoors.

LUDDITE!


Next time you have
a day or two to waste check out the 1400 or so non-woodworking photos
I have on Flickr.

I already did that the last time you mentioned it. But I need to get
the computer talking to my Gecko G540 on LPT3 first, then build my CNC
router, then make some money...

I just found out that the new 64-bit computers can't use parallel
ports. I need an extra SmoothStepper motion control board at $155.
Anyone use them? Reviews?


I'll take an Eiffel Tower then, as big as you can manage. And an alp, if
it's not too much bother.

It is. What, I say "What do you think a CNC router is, son?"

You have to get the extra-depth option.

So what do you use the umbrella for? (seriously) Portraits? Pics of your
work? Rain?

It can be used two ways. First, as a reflector. Second, as a direct
diffuser.

A light bulb shines a bright dot in the reflection off the furniture.
An umbrella diffuses it nicely, either way.

If your project is small, you can use a light box for the same
purpose, to prevent any single light source from glaring.

Troglodyte though I may be, I get that part. I was wondering what YOU
use it for.

Are CFLs reasonable color-wise these days? Or at least
correctable in some way? Aren't there spikes in the spectrum, or am I
dealing with old information (and old brain cells to hold it in) ?

CFLs come in all sorts of color temps nowadays,

Allegedly, but I was under the impression that the inherent light
production was not just skewed, but "spiky". Thus the adjustments made
to imitate "soft white" or "daylight" would still be different from what
we would have expected those terms to mean in the past. But hey, I
watched this the other day, so who knows what technology may bring. :

http://youtu.be/JWDocXPy-iQ

Greg Guarino wrote:


Allegedly, but I was under the impression that the inherent light
production was not just skewed, but "spiky". Thus the adjustments made
to imitate "soft white" or "daylight" would still be different from
what we would have expected those terms to mean in the past. But hey,
I watched this the other day, so who knows what technology may bring.
:
http://youtu.be/JWDocXPy-iQ

Holy cow Greg - never got past the first 30 seconds of that. Go to Home
Depot and look at their charts. Soft White and Daylight are opposite ends
of the spectrum. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all of that
stuff, but I find the daylight bulbs to be a very true color rendition.
There are people here who will delve into the heat ranges and what all of
that means. I'm not one of those. Sorry - can't offer a specific
recommendation beyond what I just stated.

--

-Mike-

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:45:16 -0400, Greg Guarino
wrote:

On 3/22/2012 12:39 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 10:29:08 -0400, Greg
wrote:

On 3/21/2012 11:43 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:16:46 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino
wrote:

On Mar 20, 9:13 pm, Larry
wrote:
or this great deal http://tinyurl.com/7s695b8

Nah. I'm an available light guy, usually outdoors.

LUDDITE!


Next time you have
a day or two to waste check out the 1400 or so non-woodworking photos
I have on Flickr.

I already did that the last time you mentioned it. But I need to get
the computer talking to my Gecko G540 on LPT3 first, then build my CNC
router, then make some money...

I just found out that the new 64-bit computers can't use parallel
ports. I need an extra SmoothStepper motion control board at $155.
Anyone use them? Reviews?


I'll take an Eiffel Tower then, as big as you can manage. And an alp, if
it's not too much bother.

It is. What, I say "What do you think a CNC router is, son?"

You have to get the extra-depth option.

So what do you use the umbrella for? (seriously) Portraits? Pics of your
work? Rain?

It can be used two ways. First, as a reflector. Second, as a direct
diffuser.

A light bulb shines a bright dot in the reflection off the furniture.
An umbrella diffuses it nicely, either way.

If your project is small, you can use a light box for the same
purpose, to prevent any single light source from glaring.

Troglodyte though I may be, I get that part. I was wondering what YOU
use it for.

Yeah, I got it after replying. I don't do too many projects that are
filmable inside, so it was mostly for product shots. And I once had
an short-lived idea about becoming a photographer. I dropped that
after talking with a few around town. They're underworked and unhappy
at the number of really decent cameras around for dirt-cheap prices.
They still do superb work, but the layman can do a lot better nowadays
and doesn't want to pay for a photographer. I felt the same thing
happening in web design, starting about a decade ago.

Anyway, 'product shots and the errant portrait' is the answer.


Are CFLs reasonable color-wise these days? Or at least
correctable in some way? Aren't there spikes in the spectrum, or am I
dealing with old information (and old brain cells to hold it in) ?

CFLs come in all sorts of color temps nowadays,

Allegedly, but I was under the impression that the inherent light
production was not just skewed, but "spiky". Thus the adjustments made
to imitate "soft white" or "daylight" would still be different from what
we would have expected those terms to mean in the past. But hey, I

If a person was upset over fluor lighting, they were probably upset
over incan, film, and digital photog all along. Sosolly.


watched this the other day, so who knows what technology may bring. :

http://youtu.be/JWDocXPy-iQ

Gumby'd be soooo proud!

--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:18:54 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Greg Guarino wrote:


Allegedly, but I was under the impression that the inherent light
production was not just skewed, but "spiky". Thus the adjustments made
to imitate "soft white" or "daylight" would still be different from
what we would have expected those terms to mean in the past. But hey,
I watched this the other day, so who knows what technology may bring.
:
http://youtu.be/JWDocXPy-iQ

Holy cow Greg - never got past the first 30 seconds of that.

I thought it was pretty cool, but -extremely- early in the dev cycle.


Go to Home
Depot and look at their charts. Soft White and Daylight are opposite ends
of the spectrum. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all of that
stuff, but I find the daylight bulbs to be a very true color rendition.
There are people here who will delve into the heat ranges and what all of
that means. I'm not one of those. Sorry - can't offer a specific
recommendation beyond what I just stated.

Soft white = yellow as hell, like my damned _teeth_! Screw incan!

--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix

Richard wrote:
On 3/21/2012 7:46 PM, Zz Yzx wrote:
I've asked a bunch of questions here and have gleaned quite a bit of
useful info from the 15 or so most prolific regulars. But my Flickr
(photo) account tells me that about 110 people viewed the photo linked
above today. Interesting.

42


"Good Answer!"


They are equal in base 27.

Bill wrote:
Richard wrote:
On 3/21/2012 7:46 PM, Zz Yzx wrote:
I've asked a bunch of questions here and have gleaned quite a bit of
useful info from the 15 or so most prolific regulars. But my Flickr
(photo) account tells me that about 110 people viewed the photo linked
above today. Interesting.

42


"Good Answer!"


They are equal in base 27.

That is, if 42 is in base 27. 110 is actually 42 in base 36. Who woulda
thought?

On Mar 22, 4:19*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:18:54 -0400, "Mike Marlow"

wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:

Allegedly, but I was under the impression that the inherent light
production was not just skewed, but "spiky". Thus the adjustments made
to imitate "soft white" or "daylight" would still be different from
what we would have expected those terms to mean in the past. But hey,
I watched this the other day, so who knows what technology may bring.
:
http://youtu.be/JWDocXPy-iQ

Holy cow Greg - never got past the first 30 seconds of that.

I thought it was pretty cool, but -extremely- early in the dev cycle.

Go to Home
Depot and look at their charts. *Soft White and Daylight are opposite ends
of the spectrum. *Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all of that
stuff, but I find the daylight bulbs to be a very true color rendition.
There are people here who will delve into the heat ranges and what all of
that means. *I'm not one of those. *Sorry - can't offer a specific
recommendation beyond what I just stated.

Soft white = yellow as hell, like my damned _teeth_! *Screw incan!

--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
* * * * * * * * * * *-- Jimi Hendrix

Here I am falling into the trap of the Wandering Thread, but...

It piqued my interest to see CFLs used in photo lighting. I hadn't
seen that before. While I am aware that CFLs are available in
"Daylight" and "Soft White", among other shades, I believe I have
noticed a difference between the light from those bulbs and their
Incandescent counterparts. So my first thought was, I wonder if there
are white balance presets for the CFL versions of those "colors" on
the latest cameras. And then I wondered if the various manufacturers'
offerings are at all standardized in this regard.

But the overachiever could set a custom white balance, no? That's my
main question, and I'm not so sure the answer is yes. It is my
impression that the white balance sets individual gammas for the three
colors. But it does so assuming a reasonably smooth spectrum. CFLs, as
I barely remembered, have "spikes" in their spectra. They are not just
a different "color temperature", ( a shifted smooth curve) they have
well, this

http://web.ncf.ca/jim/misc/cfl/

And I wonder if setting a custom white balance can compensate, given
that the "bands" the white balance adjusts are much wider than the
anomalies in the spectrum.

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 16:59:11 -0700 (PDT), Greg Guarino
wrote:

Here I am falling into the trap of the Wandering Thread, but...

It piqued my interest to see CFLs used in photo lighting. I hadn't
seen that before.

I'm surprised. All the paint color matching centers at stores have
been fluor for at least 20 years that I know of. I found that out
when I was doing typesetting and print work. (What the hell does that
Pantone #327 really _look_ like?)



While I am aware that CFLs are available in
"Daylight" and "Soft White", among other shades, I believe I have
noticed a difference between the light from those bulbs and their
Incandescent counterparts. So my first thought was, I wonder if there
are white balance presets for the CFL versions of those "colors" on
the latest cameras. And then I wondered if the various manufacturers'
offerings are at all standardized in this regard.

That's as likely as herding cats while pushing a rope. Just as all
mfgrs of lighting have their own definitions of "daylight", which
range from 5000k to 12000k, all camera makers have their proprietary
methods of achieving their own definition of white balance.


But the *overachiever* could set a custom white balance, no? That's my
main question, and I'm not so sure the answer is yes. It is my

I believe you misspelled "*anal*" there, Greg. If your camera has a
RAW setting, you can, indeed, set your own WB.


impression that the white balance sets individual gammas for the three
colors. But it does so assuming a reasonably smooth spectrum. CFLs, as
I barely remembered, have "spikes" in their spectra. They are not just
a different "color temperature", ( a shifted smooth curve) they have
well, this

http://web.ncf.ca/jim/misc/cfl/

And I wonder if setting a custom white balance can compensate, given
that the "bands" the white balance adjusts are much wider than the
anomalies in the spectrum.

If it's a Nikon, ask Nikon. Rinse, repeat. Saaay, is this Bill...?

Me? I'm happy with my D40 set on AUTO for now. silly grinne

--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 01:59:52 -0700, "CW" wrote:



"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .

On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 23:25:02 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

CW wrote:


I never read this group. As a matter of fact, I'm not here now.

We've known that for years, C-dub.
================================================= =
LOL

Unfortunately, I have been in this wheelchair since last June and I can't
get into the shop (stairs and no ramp).

That sucks. Roll on over to HFT and get one of the little winches and
set up a system to lower yourself down there, boy
================================================== ==========
Since being in this thing, I have thought of many things that I could make
that would make my life easier including an artificial leg,
if only I wasn't in this chair. Catch 22.


The computer has been my main
pastime lately. Hopefully, that will change here in a few months. Every
experience is a learning experience if you look at it in the right way. I
now firmly believe that every architect should have to spend a couple of
months in a wheelchair before they can get their degree. Pulled into a
parking lot a while back and found the handicapped parking spaces right in
front of the entrance. Win. Wheelchair ramp on the other side of parking
lot. Fail. I don't use handicapped parking as I feel that there are others
that need them worse than I do but I do notice. Another place. Nice ramp
parallel to building leading to entrance. Win. Entrance door opens out
blocking ramp. Fail. Then we get to the inside. Deep pile carpeting. Like
rolling through mud. Halls so narrow that making a 90 degree turn into a
room is impossible. Many of these things could be taken care of in the
design process and without a great deal, or no, expense. Just a bit of
thought.

Right. And doctors should have to roll in them for a week, too, during
their mandatory hospital stay, so they can see how it feels from that
angle. It won't change many, but the few it does will be well worth
it. (see William Hurt in "The Doctor", ca 1991. Excellent!)
================================================== =============
Good movie. On your recommendation, I looked it up and watched it. Pirate
movie sights have been quite advantageous. The hospital that I have been
going to recently has the friendliest, most helpful staff you could imagine,
with doctors that really know what they are doing. If I had gone there in
the first place, I would have been walking 6 months ago. People come from
out of state to go there. Harbor View Medical Center in Seattle. Highly
recommended.

BTW, if you are into a little entertainment in the "Holy crap. I
didn't think that was possible" area, go to YouTube and search for
"wheelchair backflip".

Har! I'll go do that now as I have some time. My 10am client called
kand her power's out so I can't work. Wow, Aaron tooks some nasty
dumps in the first part of the flick. I wonder how much replacement
high-performance wheelchairs cost for him every few months... He has
the right attitude, doesn't he?
================================================== ================================================
Quite the kid. That chair of his cost over $2000.00. I bet his parents
didn't bat an eye buying him one just to see him do what he wanted. I know I
would if it were my kid.

--
When you are kind to someone in trouble, you hope they'll remember
and be kind to someone else. And it'll become like a wildfire.
-- Whoopi Goldberg

CW wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 01:59:52 -0700, "CW" wrote:



"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 23:25:02 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

CW wrote:


I never read this group. As a matter of fact, I'm not here now.

We've known that for years, C-dub.
==================================================
LOL

Unfortunately, I have been in this wheelchair since last June and I can't
get into the shop (stairs and no ramp).

That sucks. Roll on over to HFT and get one of the little winches and
set up a system to lower yourself down there, boy
================================================== ==========
Since being in this thing, I have thought of many things that I could
make that would make my life easier including an artificial leg,
if only I wasn't in this chair. Catch 22.

Some folks have been getting me involved with woodcarving. There are a
lot of different ways to approach it and you might enjoy it before and
after you get that artificial leg.

Bill

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:39:51 -0700, "CW" wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
CW wrote:


I never read this group. As a matter of fact, I'm not here now.

We've known that for years, C-dub.
================================================ ==
LOL

Unfortunately, I have been in this wheelchair since last June and I can't
get into the shop (stairs and no ramp).

That sucks. Roll on over to HFT and get one of the little winches and
set up a system to lower yourself down there, boy
================================================= ===========
Since being in this thing, I have thought of many things that I could make
that would make my life easier including an artificial leg,
if only I wasn't in this chair. Catch 22.

I can only imagine. I've seen kitchen cabs/sink on rails which moved
up and down to match the user's height. They can go low enough to
accomodate a person in a chair or high enough to allow a giant to
stand and do dishes. You might swing by the library and see what they
have on Universal Design or Aging in Place there if you remain in the
chair. Potential booklist: http://tinyurl.com/7eax2ub


Right. And doctors should have to roll in them for a week, too, during
their mandatory hospital stay, so they can see how it feels from that
angle. It won't change many, but the few it does will be well worth
it. (see William Hurt in "The Doctor", ca 1991. Excellent!)
================================================= ==============
Good movie. On your recommendation, I looked it up and watched it. Pirate
movie sights have been quite advantageous. The hospital that I have been
going to recently has the friendliest, most helpful staff you could imagine,
with doctors that really know what they are doing. If I had gone there in
the first place, I would have been walking 6 months ago. People come from
out of state to go there. Harbor View Medical Center in Seattle. Highly
recommended.

Hey, that's only 500 miles from here...


BTW, if you are into a little entertainment in the "Holy crap. I
didn't think that was possible" area, go to YouTube and search for
"wheelchair backflip".

Har! I'll go do that now as I have some time. My 10am client called
kand her power's out so I can't work. Wow, Aaron tooks some nasty
dumps in the first part of the flick. I wonder how much replacement
high-performance wheelchairs cost for him every few months... He has
the right attitude, doesn't he?
================================================= =================================================
Quite the kid. That chair of his cost over $2000.00. I bet his parents
didn't bat an eye buying him one just to see him do what he wanted. I know I
would if it were my kid.

+1

--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix

Based on how threads spiral out of control sometimes I keep thinking there
is a joke in here somewhere about "reading and comprehending" vs. "reading
and comprehending and replying" vs. "reading and replying sans
comprehension" vs. "not being able to understand a post due to poorly
expressed content" vs. "not being able to understand a post due to
preconceived biases," etc., etc.

After 25 years or so of reading stuff on-line I've seen it all! ;~)

John

On 3/23/2012 9:52 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

Based on how threads spiral out of control sometimes I keep thinking
there is a joke in here somewhere about "reading and comprehending" vs.
"reading and comprehending and replying" vs. "reading and replying sans
comprehension" vs. "not being able to understand a post due to poorly
expressed content" vs. "not being able to understand a post due to
preconceived biases," etc., etc.

After 25 years or so of reading stuff on-line I've seen it all! ;~)

John
I'm afraid that Flickr doesn't keep stats on the literacy and intimate
personal habits of its visitors.

You'll need Google (and their new privacy policy) for that.

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 09:52:38 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:


Based on how threads spiral out of control sometimes I keep thinking there
is a joke in here somewhere about "reading and comprehending" vs. "reading
and comprehending and replying" vs. "reading and replying sans
comprehension" vs. "not being able to understand a post due to poorly
expressed content" vs. "not being able to understand a post due to
preconceived biases," etc., etc.

After 25 years or so of reading stuff on-line I've seen it all! ;~)

And now what happens next week?

"Markem" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 09:52:38 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:


Based on how threads spiral out of control sometimes I keep thinking there
is a joke in here somewhere about "reading and comprehending" vs. "reading
and comprehending and replying" vs. "reading and replying sans
comprehension" vs. "not being able to understand a post due to poorly
expressed content" vs. "not being able to understand a post due to
preconceived biases," etc., etc.

After 25 years or so of reading stuff on-line I've seen it all! ;~)

And now what happens next week?

All of the above!

"Markem" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 09:52:38 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:


Based on how threads spiral out of control sometimes I keep thinking there
is a joke in here somewhere about "reading and comprehending" vs. "reading
and comprehending and replying" vs. "reading and replying sans
comprehension" vs. "not being able to understand a post due to poorly
expressed content" vs. "not being able to understand a post due to
preconceived biases," etc., etc.

After 25 years or so of reading stuff on-line I've seen it all! ;~)

And now what happens next week?



Stay tuned.

Max

In article m, "Lee
Michaels" says...

"Larry Jaques" wrote ...
"Lee Michaels" wrote:

How about all the computer programs and graphic displays that only allow
people who have the eye sight of an eagle to use them? Again, created by
young people who obviously don't have a clue how the rest of us live.

That's why Windows and browsers allow for different font sizes.
I'll leave doing the Internet via cell phone to kids who can -see-
that little 3.4" screen. Sheesh!

I use those all the time. But the color schemes, font choices, graphic
design, etc. make it very difficult to read. And many web sites "lock in" a
tiny font size. They will not allow you to change the font size. I was at
the library the other day and printed out something that a friend requested.
The print was so tiny, we could not read with a magnifying glass! And there
was no way that the text could be made bigger, either on the screen or
printed.

And all these web pages that are barely visible. White background with very
pale blue fonts? Or pale yellow fonts?? The list goes on.

Microsoft makes a big deal about making some display options available for
visually impaired people. One such choice is the high contrast color
scheme. It blanks out half of the page! Including Microsoft's own help
menus and the display controls! I learned long ago that if you have vision
or hearing problems, the world does little to accommodate you.

Another thing, the old analog TV sets all had headphone jacks. That way I
could plug in a set of headphones if I wanted to listen to some music, etc.
The new digital flat screens?? Not so much. At least two thirds of them
have no headphone jacks at all. And the ones who do, they are all located
in the back And if this thing is put into any kind of furniture, you would
not be able to reach in back to plug in the head phones. And you would need
an extension cable any way because the jack is so much further away.

Lee, do you have Windows 7? If so put a Microsoft Mouse (has to be
their mouse) on the machine and click the little button on the left
side. You're gonna like what happens.