Just finished my last project. Dining room table and chairs. Posted on abpw.

Have never built a chair before. What an interesting challenge. Used loose
tenon construction and had every individual piece of wood marked.

Table is 8/4 red oak with mahogany stain to darken it a bit. Urethane top
coat. Glass is 3/8 smoked plate glass. Table is 44x60.

I really had fun building this and got to use several tools that I haven't
used much, like a spokeshave and bull nose plane.

I bought a little gadget called MortisePal and it made cutting the mortises
in the table and chairs a snap. Just set it and rout out the mortise. Fast
and accurate. For anyone who is challenged by mortise & tenon joinery, this
little jig is well worth the cost.

Vic

--
There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
don't

"Vic Baron" wrote in message
...
Just finished my last project. Dining room table and chairs. Posted on
abpw.

Have never built a chair before. What an interesting challenge. Used loose
tenon construction and had every individual piece of wood marked.

Table is 8/4 red oak with mahogany stain to darken it a bit. Urethane top
coat. Glass is 3/8 smoked plate glass. Table is 44x60.

I really had fun building this and got to use several tools that I haven't
used much, like a spokeshave and bull nose plane.

I bought a little gadget called MortisePal and it made cutting the
mortises in the table and chairs a snap. Just set it and rout out the
mortise. Fast and accurate. For anyone who is challenged by mortise &
tenon joinery, this little jig is well worth the cost.

Vic

Very nice work Vic. How many mortises? I guess I wouldn't have wanted to do
all of those with my drill press and chisel!
Dick

--
There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
don't

"Dick Snyder" wrote in message
...

"Vic Baron" wrote in message
...
Just finished my last project. Dining room table and chairs. Posted on
abpw.

Have never built a chair before. What an interesting challenge. Used
loose tenon construction and had every individual piece of wood marked.

Table is 8/4 red oak with mahogany stain to darken it a bit. Urethane top
coat. Glass is 3/8 smoked plate glass. Table is 44x60.

I really had fun building this and got to use several tools that I
haven't used much, like a spokeshave and bull nose plane.

I bought a little gadget called MortisePal and it made cutting the
mortises in the table and chairs a snap. Just set it and rout out the
mortise. Fast and accurate. For anyone who is challenged by mortise &
tenon joinery, this little jig is well worth the cost.

Vic

Very nice work Vic. How many mortises? I guess I wouldn't have wanted to
do all of those with my drill press and chisel!
Dick

--
There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
don't



Thank you!

Actually, 112 mortises and 32 dowels. I shudder to think of doing them
with a drill and chisel. The router made it a snap.

Vic

I agree, very nice, Vic.

However, if I may:
I can't tell if it is the pics, themselves (distance), as to why I
can't see clear details, but I'll assume the edges of the seat
upholstery are a little uneven.

When upholstering dining chairs, don't pull the fabric over and under
the edges of the seat with your thumb and index finger. That will
always result in indentations, or an uneven edge, along the edges.

Preferably, the bulk of the padding should not overlap the edges of
the seat base (board), for a fitted seat as that (It looks like the
seat fits into/inside the chair framing). Too much padding on the
outer edges can cause problems with (pressure on) the chair frame. Be
careful with that outer edge padding, that way. A light amount of
padding, like a polyester batting (polyester fiberfill), is okay to
overlap the edges with, to dull any sharp edges of the board it's on.
Just don't use a lot of batting (bulk padding) on the edges.

Application of the fabric:
To start, tack or staple (I use staples) the centers of the front and
back. The tension, here, shouldn't be the final tension. Somewhat
align the sides' centers, but not tight, and tack them in temporary
position.

Align the front edge of the fabric, next to the first staple, and
staple the adjacent areas, one on each side of the first staple....
staples about 1" apart. If the fabric seems to align easily, staple
one more, each side, again. Make sure the lateral tension is good and
firm (the finish tension, laterally). Don't pull the fabric,
laterally, with your thumb and index finger... use the palm of your
hand to pressure it laterally. Work it a few times, with your palm...
you'll see the results as you work it.

Now you want to attach the center section of the back edge to its
finished tension. Instead of pulling each area with thumb and index
finger, place your whole hand on the seat's top and pet (like petting
your dog) the "whole" toward the back. The whole of the fabric will
adjust itself to conform to and over the edge, uniformly. With your
whole hand still in pressured position, remove the initial staple,
while using your thumb to hold the fabric in position at that point,
then insert a replacement staple, there. Use the petting motion for
a few more attachments at the back edge.... and don't forget about the
lateral tension, there, also.... , then....

Go back the the front edge and attach another few staples along the
front edge. At this point, the front edge conformity can be
established with the whole-hand petting motion, also. Just make sure
your lateral tension continues to be good and firm/tight. Then repeat
the back edge procedure.

Except for upholstering right at the corners, when the front and back
edges are done, attach the side edges. Do the same petting procedure
for attaching the sides. This petting procedure eliminates awkward,
excess and/or contorted fabric gathering at the corners, as often
happens when one tries the "thumb-index finger" pulling technique, for
stretching fabric across an area.

The petting procedure and the firm lateral tension will help eliminate
those dips, valleys, uneven edges. I don't suspect you have too much
padding, along the edges, for it to have caused the rippling I think I
can see (again, I'm not sure I am seeing correctly). I suspect it was
the way the fabric was attached. This petting procedure is a must for
fabrics with lines or other similar patterns, that need to be
perfectly aligned and uniformly tensioned.

Sonny

"Vic Baron" wrote in message
...


"Dick Snyder" wrote in message
...

"Vic Baron" wrote in message
...
Just finished my last project. Dining room table and chairs. Posted on
abpw.

Have never built a chair before. What an interesting challenge. Used
loose tenon construction and had every individual piece of wood marked.

Table is 8/4 red oak with mahogany stain to darken it a bit. Urethane
top coat. Glass is 3/8 smoked plate glass. Table is 44x60.

I really had fun building this and got to use several tools that I
haven't used much, like a spokeshave and bull nose plane.

I bought a little gadget called MortisePal and it made cutting the
mortises in the table and chairs a snap. Just set it and rout out the
mortise. Fast and accurate. For anyone who is challenged by mortise &
tenon joinery, this little jig is well worth the cost.

Vic

Very nice work Vic. How many mortises? I guess I wouldn't have wanted to
do all of those with my drill press and chisel!
Dick

--
There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
don't



Thank you!

Actually, 112 mortises and 32 dowels. I shudder to think of doing them
with a drill and chisel. The router made it a snap.

Vic
I just read the info on the MortisePal. Looks pretty good. I assume you
fabricated the tenons somehow and then rounded the edges. Correct?

Dick

On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 21:08:31 -0500, "Dick Snyder"
wrote:


"Vic Baron" wrote in message
...


"Dick Snyder" wrote in message
...

"Vic Baron" wrote in message
...
Just finished my last project. Dining room table and chairs. Posted on
abpw.

Have never built a chair before. What an interesting challenge. Used
loose tenon construction and had every individual piece of wood marked.

Table is 8/4 red oak with mahogany stain to darken it a bit. Urethane
top coat. Glass is 3/8 smoked plate glass. Table is 44x60.

I really had fun building this and got to use several tools that I
haven't used much, like a spokeshave and bull nose plane.

I bought a little gadget called MortisePal and it made cutting the
mortises in the table and chairs a snap. Just set it and rout out the
mortise. Fast and accurate. For anyone who is challenged by mortise &
tenon joinery, this little jig is well worth the cost.

Vic

Very nice work Vic. How many mortises? I guess I wouldn't have wanted to
do all of those with my drill press and chisel!
Dick

--
There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
don't



Thank you!

Actually, 112 mortises and 32 dowels. I shudder to think of doing them
with a drill and chisel. The router made it a snap.

Vic
I just read the info on the MortisePal. Looks pretty good.

Indeed it does. I've been considering how I want to tackle M&T and
this solution looks pretty good. It's certainly cheaper than the
Leigh jig ($850!).

I assume you
fabricated the tenons somehow and then rounded the edges. Correct?

They sell the tenon stock on the same web page.

"Dick Snyder" wrote in message
news

"Vic Baron" wrote in message
...


"Dick Snyder" wrote in message
...

"Vic Baron" wrote in message
...
Just finished my last project. Dining room table and chairs. Posted on
abpw.

Have never built a chair before. What an interesting challenge. Used
loose tenon construction and had every individual piece of wood marked.

Table is 8/4 red oak with mahogany stain to darken it a bit. Urethane
top coat. Glass is 3/8 smoked plate glass. Table is 44x60.

I really had fun building this and got to use several tools that I
haven't used much, like a spokeshave and bull nose plane.

I bought a little gadget called MortisePal and it made cutting the
mortises in the table and chairs a snap. Just set it and rout out the
mortise. Fast and accurate. For anyone who is challenged by mortise &
tenon joinery, this little jig is well worth the cost.

Vic

Very nice work Vic. How many mortises? I guess I wouldn't have wanted
to do all of those with my drill press and chisel!
Dick

--
There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those
who don't



Thank you!

Actually, 112 mortises and 32 dowels. I shudder to think of doing them
with a drill and chisel. The router made it a snap.

Vic
I just read the info on the MortisePal. Looks pretty good. I assume you
fabricated the tenons somehow and then rounded the edges. Correct?

Dick


Yes. they do sell various sizes pemade but it was a snap making them. I just
cut some strips on the bandsaw and a few passes with a block plane to round
over the edges. Probably could use a router to round the edges but it was
really only a few passes with the plane. BTW, also used the MortisePal to
rout the dowel holes in th ends of several pieces. Made alignment a snap. As
you can tell, I REALLY like that jig - and I have no connection with the
company other than a satisfied customer.

Vic

"Sonny" wrote in message
...
I agree, very nice, Vic.

However, if I may:
I can't tell if it is the pics, themselves (distance), as to why I
can't see clear details, but I'll assume the edges of the seat
upholstery are a little uneven.
snip


You are absolutely correct Sonny. Couldn't get the tension quite right. It's
in my job jar to redo that part. Appreciate your tips.

The seats are 1/2 plywood blanks set in a 3/8 deep by 1/2 wide rabbett. I
did make corner blocks which the seat is screwed to.

Plywood has a layer of 1" foam and two layers of 1" dacron or poly cotton or
whatever you call it g - then the fabric.

Seems my main mistake was the initial staple - I pulled that too tight and
it was downhill from there.

I've printed out your tips and will give it another go.

Thanx!

I think most dining chairs have a tad more padding, on top, than
you've described. A generous layer of cotton is typical for a first
layer, against the seat base (board), then foam, then a layer of
"polyester" (there are several kinds of finish lining/padding). *Fire
retardent polyester fiberfill (a designated industry description) is
just as inexpensive as non-fire retardent fiberfill.

For when you redo your seats: For the small amount of padding you
seem to have, pay close attention to the front and back corners of the
seat base, your plywood! If the wood's corners are sharp 90�, the
wood may poke through the fiberfill and sometimes, in time, through
the fabric, at those points. When you redo the seats, at the point of
having the fabric over the corners (just prior to stapling your fabric
down), feel the corners to see if they feel too sharp (use your good
judgement). If they feel too sharp, cut the tip (1/8") off the
board's corners. This will dull those sharp "poking" corners, yet
maintain a good square contour. That 1/8" removed is not going to
affect any visible or functional difference. For seats with a bit
more padding, instead of cutting the corners, a touch more padding, at
those spots, can be used to soften sharp corners. The consideration
not to use a touch more padding on your corners is because your seats
fit inside a framing..... you want to avoid adding padding into that
fitted type of framing.

I assume everyone knows, but I'll add: Once a seat is fitted to a
particular chair frame, attach a number/symbol to the seat
corresponding to its particular chair/frame number/symbol.

Sonny

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:57:12 -0800 (PST), Sonny
wrote:

I think most dining chairs have a tad more padding, on top, than
you've described.

Our dining room chairs are all wood; no padding at all. I guess the
Amish that built them thought padding to be a luxury. ;-)

snip

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:05:33 -0600, krw wrote:

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:57:12 -0800 (PST), Sonny
wrote:

I think most dining chairs have a tad more padding, on top, than
you've described.

Our dining room chairs are all wood; no padding at all. I guess the
Amish that built them thought padding to be a luxury. ;-)

snip


Besides that, dining chairs with fabric are difficult to keep clean.
Not my style but you can always use those washable chair pads.

On Dec 23, 12:08*pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:05:33 -0600, krw wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:57:12 -0800 (PST), Sonny
wrote:

I think most dining chairs have a tad more padding, on top, than
you've described.

Our dining room chairs are all wood; no padding at all. *I guess the
Amish that built them thought padding to be a luxury. *;-)

snip

Besides that, dining chairs with fabric are difficult to keep clean.
Not my style but you can always use those washable chair pads.

They're cheap to replace, too. We'd thought about buying chair pads
but the chairs are pretty comfortable as they are and look very nice
without pads.

"Sonny" wrote in message
...
I think most dining chairs have a tad more padding, on top, than
you've described. A generous layer of cotton is typical for a first
layer, against the seat base (board), then foam, then a layer of
"polyester" (there are several kinds of finish lining/padding). *Fire
retardent polyester fiberfill (a designated industry description) is
just as inexpensive as non-fire retardent fiberfill.

For when you redo your seats: For the small amount of padding you
seem to have, pay close attention to the front and back corners of the
seat base, your plywood! If the wood's corners are sharp 90�, the
wood may poke through the fiberfill and sometimes, in time, through
the fabric, at those points. When you redo the seats, at the point of
having the fabric over the corners (just prior to stapling your fabric
down), feel the corners to see if they feel too sharp (use your good
judgement). If they feel too sharp, cut the tip (1/8") off the
board's corners. This will dull those sharp "poking" corners, yet
maintain a good square contour. That 1/8" removed is not going to
affect any visible or functional difference. For seats with a bit
more padding, instead of cutting the corners, a touch more padding, at
those spots, can be used to soften sharp corners. The consideration
not to use a touch more padding on your corners is because your seats
fit inside a framing..... you want to avoid adding padding into that
fitted type of framing.

I assume everyone knows, but I'll add: Once a seat is fitted to a
particular chair frame, attach a number/symbol to the seat
corresponding to its particular chair/frame number/symbol.

Sonny

Thanx, Sonny - I used sandpaper to slightly round the sharp edges about 1/8
so it should be fine. Also, I did number each seat.

Vic

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:05:33 -0600, krw wrote:

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:57:12 -0800 (PST), Sonny
wrote:

I think most dining chairs have a tad more padding, on top, than
you've described.

Our dining room chairs are all wood; no padding at all. I guess the
Amish that built them thought padding to be a luxury. ;-)

snip


Besides that, dining chairs with fabric are difficult to keep clean.
Not my style but you can always use those washable chair pads.

I make a distinction between kitchen chairs and dining chairs. Kitchen
chairs are usually a little more upright and less comfortable, hence no
padding or at best a tie on pad. As I have read, dining chairs are meant to
be sat in longer and are designed with a more relaxed angle and a padded
seat.

Of course, there are always exceptions but that's what I found in my
research. So, I opted for almost a 10 degree back angle and a padded seat.

Vic

What was meant was padding for upholstered chairs, since I was zeroing
in on the upholstery, not literally all dining or kitchen chairs. ...
But I took krw's comment as ribbing. Them Amish folk don't grow
cotton, I don't think. LOL.

Sonny

"Vic Baron" wrote in message
...


"Sonny" wrote in message
...
I think most dining chairs have a tad more padding, on top,
than
you've described. A generous layer of cotton is typical for a
first
layer, against the seat base (board), then foam, then a layer
of
"polyester" (there are several kinds of finish lining/padding).
*Fire
retardent polyester fiberfill (a designated industry
description) is
just as inexpensive as non-fire retardent fiberfill.



I recovered 6 dining room chairs long ago. I didn't have the
fabric stretcher, but still got pretty decent, uniform, tension
all around. To get it, I placed the fabric face down on the
bench, adding the already padded seat on top, then adding 2 60#
weights to the wood. The weights compressed the padding very
well, and all I had to do was gently pull the fabric over the wood
base and hit it with the stapler. My weights were fairly large,
so to get a little elbow room for the stapler, I stood them off
slightly with a piece of 6X6 I used as a wheel chock on the truck.


--
Nonny

ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
and articulate person who has absolutely no clue
concerning what they are talking about.
The person is typically a media commentator or politician.

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 13:54:34 -0800 (PST), Sonny
wrote:

What was meant was padding for upholstered chairs, since I was zeroing
in on the upholstery, not literally all dining or kitchen chairs. ...
But I took krw's comment as ribbing.

Who me?

Them Amish folk don't grow cotton, I don't think. LOL.

Not in Ohio, anyway.

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 11:32:45 -0800, "Vic Baron"
wrote:



"Phisherman" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:05:33 -0600, krw wrote:

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:57:12 -0800 (PST), Sonny
wrote:

I think most dining chairs have a tad more padding, on top, than
you've described.

Our dining room chairs are all wood; no padding at all. I guess the
Amish that built them thought padding to be a luxury. ;-)

snip


Besides that, dining chairs with fabric are difficult to keep clean.
Not my style but you can always use those washable chair pads.

I make a distinction between kitchen chairs and dining chairs. Kitchen
chairs are usually a little more upright and less comfortable, hence no
padding or at best a tie on pad. As I have read, dining chairs are meant to
be sat in longer and are designed with a more relaxed angle and a padded
seat.

Funny, our "kitchen" (breakfast, actually) chairs are padded and the
formal dining room chairs not. The dining room is nice stuff where we
want to show the wood (cherry) and the kitchen stiff is cheap stuff
we've had for years (will be replaced this spring with a Bistro-height
table and chairs). I haven't decided what wood I want yet.

Of course, there are always exceptions but that's what I found in my
research. So, I opted for almost a 10 degree back angle and a padded seat.

Our dining chairs are "Royal Mission" style so have a pretty drastic
curve in the back. They fit the back very well and quite comfortable.

"krw" wrote:

Not in Ohio, anyway.

Cheese and furniture, yes.

Cotton, not so much, more like none.

Lew

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:46:25 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:


"krw" wrote:

Not in Ohio, anyway.

Cheese and furniture, yes.

Cotton, not so much, more like none.

Yep. Neat place to visit. Aside from the Chinese and Indian junk in
some of the stores, the Amish villages were quite interesting. The
furniture stores and factories even more so. One gave me a cook's
tour of their production facility (no one was there over the weekend).

krw" wrote:

Yep. Neat place to visit. Aside from the Chinese and Indian junk
in
some of the stores, the Amish villages were quite interesting. The
furniture stores and factories even more so. One gave me a cook's
tour of their production facility (no one was there over the
weekend).

What part of Ohio?

Lew

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:03:58 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:


krw" wrote:

Yep. Neat place to visit. Aside from the Chinese and Indian junk
in
some of the stores, the Amish villages were quite interesting. The
furniture stores and factories even more so. One gave me a cook's
tour of their production facility (no one was there over the
weekend).

What part of Ohio?

North-east, a bit South of Akron-Canton. I did some contracting in
Akron a couple of years ago and we spent several weekends scoping out
furniture, quilts, and such. Very nice stuff, but I have to say, I've
seen stuff you folks here have done that looks every bit as good.

This is the place we ended up buying our bedroom and dining room sets:

http://www.greenacresfurniture.com/

We'll likely have them do a breakfast set and fill out some other
pieces in the spring.

krw" wrote:

North-east, a bit South of Akron-Canton.

Sounds like New Philly-Dover area.

Grew up 30 miles west of Canton.

Lew

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:02:13 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

krw" wrote:

North-east, a bit South of Akron-Canton.

Sounds like New Philly-Dover area.

Most of the places are in Navarre, Berlin, Sugar Creek, Charm, and
Kidron.

Grew up 30 miles west of Canton.

Wooster? They're about half way between Canton and Wooster and a bit
South.

krw" wrote:

Most of the places are in Navarre, Berlin, Sugar Creek, Charm, and
Kidron.

Been to ALL of the above.

My mother lived in Apple Creek.

Would go over to Kidron (less than 5 miles) for ice cream cones and a
visit to Lehman Hd'we when I would go back for a visit.

Time to stock up on Trail Bologna and real Swiss Cheese.


Lew

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 20:33:05 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

krw" wrote:

Most of the places are in Navarre, Berlin, Sugar Creek, Charm, and
Kidron.

Been to ALL of the above.

My mother lived in Apple Creek.

Would go over to Kidron (less than 5 miles) for ice cream cones and a
visit to Lehman Hd'we when I would go back for a visit.

You must have known Amish, then. Quite an interesting group.

Time to stock up on Trail Bologna and real Swiss Cheese.

We didn't buy much cheese while there. VT had lotsa good cheese too,
so it wasn't a priority.

krw" wrote:

You must have known Amish, then. Quite an interesting group.

They gave my mother a chance to practice her German when she talked to
them.

Would buy eggs and fresh garden vegetables from them.

In that area you have both the Amish and the "Beardless Amish", AKA:
Mennonites.

Sometimes the only way to tell the difference from a distance was that
the Mennonites drove automobiles.

Lew

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 21:13:04 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

krw" wrote:

You must have known Amish, then. Quite an interesting group.

They gave my mother a chance to practice her German when she talked to
them.

Would buy eggs and fresh garden vegetables from them.

In that area you have both the Amish and the "Beardless Amish", AKA:
Mennonites.

Sometimes the only way to tell the difference from a distance was that
the Mennonites drove automobiles.

That's one of the interesting things about the Amish. They're not
against technology, rather luxuries. They'll gladly use technology in
business (I posted the web site of the company I bought from) but will
not have the same in their house. The company I bought from was not
connected to the power grid but did have diesel generators to run the
business. ...and cash registers, calculators... OTOH, some had gas
lighting in their showrooms instead of generators. They, of course,
used trucks to deliver their product, though it wasn't theirs. I
don't know, but suspect the people hired to do their deliveries
weren't Amish. Maybe they were Mennonites. ;-)

We did see Amish in the Chapel Hill Mall in Akron, driven there in
large passenger vans. The do use automobiles, though I have no idea
what the ownership details were.

"Nonny" wrote in message
...

"Vic Baron" wrote in message
...


"Sonny" wrote in message
...
I think most dining chairs have a tad more padding, on top, than
you've described. A generous layer of cotton is typical for a first
layer, against the seat base (board), then foam, then a layer of
"polyester" (there are several kinds of finish lining/padding). *Fire
retardent polyester fiberfill (a designated industry description) is
just as inexpensive as non-fire retardent fiberfill.



I recovered 6 dining room chairs long ago. I didn't have the fabric
stretcher, but still got pretty decent, uniform, tension all around. To
get it, I placed the fabric face down on the bench, adding the already
padded seat on top, then adding 2 60# weights to the wood. The weights
compressed the padding very well, and all I had to do was gently pull the
fabric over the wood base and hit it with the stapler. My weights were
fairly large, so to get a little elbow room for the stapler, I stood them
off slightly with a piece of 6X6 I used as a wheel chock on the truck.



that makes a lot of sense. I know I was applying uneven pressure each time I
pulled the fabric. A good properly placed weight would have made it much
easier.

Sometimes the obvious escapes us.

Vic