Saw this for the first time in this month's Wood magazine.

http://www.grip-tite.com/splitter.html

To see what it is they are actually referring to go here.

http://www.homestead.com/ValRoseWoodWorks/Splitter.html

My first thought, after thinking I'd have to re-write the
instructions for making a zero clearance insert was, Hey!,
This guy stole my idea for doing up a super fine zero
clearance insert Web page!

Please, go back to your houses.

UA100

"Unisaw A100" wrote in message
...

snip


This guy stole my idea for doing up a super fine zero
clearance insert Web page!

Sue da' shameless bas*tard! Make an example of him. He can share the cell
with Martha,

Unisaw A100 wrote:

My first thought, after thinking I'd have to re-write the
instructions for making a zero clearance insert was, Hey!,
This guy stole my idea for doing up a super fine zero
clearance insert Web page!

Please, go back to your houses.

Wow, it looks like this guy is advocating the use of a table saw without the
GUARD. What kind of a crazy maniac is this guy anyway?

(Have you tried this, Keith? I usually run a splitter with the guard hacked
off, but the splitter on my new saw is incredibly flimsy, and incredibly
irritating to remove and reinstall. I was just thinking about how I would
remedy that when I saw your post. That pin thing looks like it might be a
good way to go, if it would actually work.)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan:
Wow, it looks like this guy is advocating the use of a table saw without the
GUARD. What kind of a crazy maniac is this guy anyway?

At the end of the Wood magazine article where they reviewed
this, the Biesemeyer, Delta and the Excalibur they (Wood)
had noted that these (the pin inserts) were the best buy but
you should look at putting your savings towards an over arm
guard. Had a lawyerish feel to it.

(Have you tried this, Keith? I usually run a splitter with the guard hacked
off, but the splitter on my new saw is incredibly flimsy, and incredibly
irritating to remove and reinstall. I was just thinking about how I would
remedy that when I saw your post. That pin thing looks like it might be a
good way to go, if it would actually work.)

I haven't done the pin though I do currently use an insert
with a 3/4" high maple splitter glued in. So far, knocking
wood, so good. I do like the Grip Tite feature of being
able to switch between the 3/32" and 1/8" pins.

'Sides, it would be easier to align than a glued in fin
splitter. And hell, it's only $7.

UA100

I haven't done the pin though I do currently use an insert
with a 3/4" high maple splitter glued in. So far, knocking
wood, so good. I do like the Grip Tite feature of being
able to switch between the 3/32" and 1/8" pins.

'Sides, it would be easier to align than a glued in fin
splitter. And hell, it's only $7.

UA100

yeah, I have always been baffled at the splitter madness; removable
splitters, blah blah. Considering how easy it is to make an insert when
you have a router and a template (for some of the cost of those
splitters, you could BUY a cheapo router), and the fact it takes 30
seconds to change inserts, I though, jeez, idiots.

But I gotta admit, the stage of fitting a wooden splitter is a royal
pain in the ass and last time it did take me two tries First one had
the *^&*^% thing on a slant.

So, for $7, I just might order a few of em...if I can find an easy
mail-order place that carries them and ships to Canada for a reasonable
price. It looks like a great idea to me.

Unisaw A100 wrote:

you should look at putting your savings towards an over arm
guard. Had a lawyerish feel to it.

Unsurprising.

'Sides, it would be easier to align than a glued in fin
splitter. And hell, it's only $7.

My thinking too. Only problem is I need to make a thicker insert for it to
fly. I've been looking at this problem for a while, and I really don't
have a good plan of attack. The factory insert is only 1/8" thick, and the
edge is rolled over and sort of pointy. I think it would make a lousy
guide for a router bit, even if I had a router that didn't suck. Then
there's the problem of routing off material to fit the rim, which needs
close tolerances, and is hardly a job for the random depth feature on my
Crapsman router.

I'm thinking about sucking it up and just buying one of these damn plastic
ones. It would be worth $22 just to save myself an afternoon of
frustration.

OTOH, I will need a lot of them, and an afternoon of frustration could save
me a ton of money in the long run.

sigh

Why do these damn things have to be ROUND anyway? Square is 50,000 times
easier.

I hate curves. Despise them. Detest them. Abhor them. Right angles and
straight lines are wonderful.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Unisaw A100 wrote in message . ..
Saw this for the first time in this month's Wood magazine.

http://www.grip-tite.com/splitter.html

To see what it is they are actually referring to go here.

http://www.homestead.com/ValRoseWoodWorks/Splitter.html


I wonder how you use that when your insert is onl 1/16" thick.

Hmm. there may be a way.

--

FF

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:08:26 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

Unisaw A100 wrote:

you should look at putting your savings towards an over arm
guard. Had a lawyerish feel to it.

Unsurprising.

'Sides, it would be easier to align than a glued in fin
splitter. And hell, it's only $7.

My thinking too.


Yabut shopmade ones from scrap are free, and you don't have to wait
for the mailorder or settle for a generic product.










Only problem is I need to make a thicker insert for it to fly.

I make them out of scraps of 1/2" baltic birch. I really like the
stiffness of the birch.





I've been looking at this problem for a while, and I really don't
have a good plan of attack. The factory insert is only 1/8" thick, and the
edge is rolled over and sort of pointy.
I think it would make a lousy guide for a router bit,

granted. bury that POS in a deep drawer away from the light of day.
make a nice tight fitting template out of whatever decent sheet goods
you have scrap of lying around. the 1/8" rim could rpesent a problem
in weaker materials like particle board or lauan ply but assuming it's
continuous all of the way around it should be plenty strong enough in
baltic birch.



even if I had a router that didn't suck. Then
there's the problem of routing off material to fit the rim, which needs
close tolerances,


I have 2 templates that I use to make inserts. one is for the oval
shape at the surface of the saw, the other is for the flats that the
insert rides on. on my saw the tabs aren't even quite the same
distance from the saw top, so there's always a bit of fitting with a
cabinet scraper




and is hardly a job for the random depth feature on my
Crapsman router.

that router has gotta be a temporary thing in your shop if you intend
to use routers to do anything meaningful. (it might be adequate for
stirring cake batter. ask David Eisan...) either you gonna hafta get a
real router or do without. in the meantime you might get away with
cranking the collet and depth adjustment locks down real close to the
breaking point, and making a goodly sized batch of inserts.





I'm thinking about sucking it up and just buying one of these damn plastic
ones. It would be worth $22 just to save myself an afternoon of
frustration.

ya wuss.




OTOH, I will need a lot of them, and an afternoon of frustration could save
me a ton of money in the long run.

and get you a better fitting insert than a generic plastic one. and
don't forget being able to have different ones for different angles,
and for dado blades and such.




sigh

Why do these damn things have to be ROUND anyway? Square is 50,000 times
easier.

corners have an annoying tendency to curl up over time. if the
material is going to have any tendency to warp, the amount will be
greatest at the corner....




I hate curves. Despise them. Detest them. Abhor them. Right angles and
straight lines are wonderful.


curves are sexier....




Bridger

Bridger wrote:

Yabut shopmade ones from scrap are free, and you don't have to wait
for the mailorder or settle for a generic product.

Free is good. I'm really spending too much money lately, and I still
haven't bought any lumber.

I make them out of scraps of 1/2" baltic birch. I really like the
stiffness of the birch.

I have a little of that left. I'm going to have to actually go buy some
soon. My source of cutoffs dried up.

granted. bury that POS in a deep drawer away from the light of day.
make a nice tight fitting template out of whatever decent sheet goods
you have scrap of lying around. the 1/8" rim could rpesent a problem
in weaker materials like particle board or lauan ply but assuming it's
continuous all of the way around it should be plenty strong enough in
baltic birch.

I'm not sure whether it's continuous or not. I can't summon up a picture of
it in my mind. I think it likely is though.

and is hardly a job for the random depth feature on my
Crapsman router.

that router has gotta be a temporary thing in your shop if you intend
to use routers to do anything meaningful. (it might be adequate for
stirring cake batter. ask David Eisan...) either you gonna hafta get a

Yeah, I know. I use it once or twice a year, and it performs dismally. I
haven't really missed having a real router though, and it's way down there
on my someday list. I do most "router jobs" with a table saw or chisels,
or don't do them at all.

real router or do without. in the meantime you might get away with
cranking the collet and depth adjustment locks down real close to the
breaking point, and making a goodly sized batch of inserts.

I don't have any kind of guide bushing thingie to follow a template anyway.
So how can I make one of these things without a router? The only thing I
have for cutting curvy stuff is a scroll saw. I can cut close to a line,
but I have serious doubts about doing a satisfactory job on something that
needs tolerances this close.

It would be a lot easier if the table came with a rectangular hole in it.
Maybe I could chisel out the opening. Steel is harder than cast iron.
(I'm kidding, if that wasn't obvious.)

I'm thinking about sucking it up and just buying one of these damn plastic
ones. It would be worth $22 just to save myself an afternoon of
frustration.

ya wuss.

Sort of, yes, but my router is all but absolutely useless, and I can't think
of any other way to make a smooth, precise curve.

Maybe make a circle cutting jig for the TS and cut half circles with it.
That could work, maybe. Fiddly. Not impossible.

It's not spending $22 that bothers me, but needing another $22 when I
eventually get a dado stack, and another $22 for 45-degree bevels and
another $22 for when I want to do 33.275 degree angles for that super
blurfl. Making them myself would be much cheaper.

OTOH, I will need a lot of them, and an afternoon of frustration could
save me a ton of money in the long run.

and get you a better fitting insert than a generic plastic one. and
don't forget being able to have different ones for different angles,
and for dado blades and such.

Yeah.

corners have an annoying tendency to curl up over time. if the
material is going to have any tendency to warp, the amount will be
greatest at the corner....

Oh.

I hate curves. Despise them. Detest them. Abhor them. Right angles and
straight lines are wonderful.


curves are sexier....

I don't want to make love to it, I just want to cut stuff with it.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article ,
Unisaw A100 writes:

'Sides, it would be easier to align than a glued in fin
splitter. And hell, it's only $7.

Here's a qwik tip. Make your zero clearance insert. Turn off
your saw and take the insert out. Put in another insert
and raise the blade. Place your new insert on top of the
old one so that the blade also enters the slot on the new
insert. Move your fence over to the new insert. Take the
new insert off the table and start your saw. Now saw a
perfectly aligned kerf in the back of your new insert.

You're free to glue in a fin if you like, or use the
slot for your splitter (assuming you have one).
You'll have to shave off
some of the fin, of course, to allow some clearance.

Would this be easier than using one of those $7 inserts?
It's definitely cheaper, and even "Made in [fill in your
country]," assuming you don't farm out any of this.
(What?!? You mean you don't make your own zero clearance
inserts?!!!)

--
Jeff Thunder, still burning in rec.hell
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
Northern Illinois Univ.
jthunder at math dot niu dot edu

"Silvan" wrote in message
I don't have any kind of guide bushing thingie to follow a template
anyway.
So how can I make one of these things without a router? The only thing I
have for cutting curvy stuff is a scroll saw. I can cut close to a line,
but I have serious doubts about doing a satisfactory job on something that
needs tolerances this close.

Next time Woodcraft offers router bits for $5 grab one witht he bearing that
follows a template. That is what I used to make them from MDF after rough
cutting the blanks on the band saw. Scroll saw or jig saw would work also.

Barring all of that, do you have a belt or spindle sander? You can get a
good enough fit that way also.



It's not spending $22 that bothers me, but needing another $22 when I
eventually get a dado stack, and another $22 for 45-degree bevels and
another $22 for when I want to do 33.275 degree angles for that super
blurfl. Making them myself would be much cheaper.

With the MDF they are about 50¢ or so. With scraps, even less. What do you
have laying around?--
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 03:50:25 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

snip


Crapsman router.

that router has gotta be a temporary thing in your shop if you intend
to use routers to do anything meaningful. (it might be adequate for
stirring cake batter. ask David Eisan...) either you gonna hafta get a

Yeah, I know. I use it once or twice a year, and it performs dismally. I
haven't really missed having a real router though, and it's way down there
on my someday list. I do most "router jobs" with a table saw or chisels,
or don't do them at all.

real router or do without. in the meantime you might get away with
cranking the collet and depth adjustment locks down real close to the
breaking point, and making a goodly sized batch of inserts.

I don't have any kind of guide bushing thingie to follow a template anyway.

if you make your template fit nicely in the opening, you'll want to
use a pattern bit to copy it. it has the bearing right there attached
to the router bit. Either like:
http://tinyurl.com/2vpuz
or:
http://tinyurl.com/2h6gy
depending whether you want the template above or below.



So how can I make one of these things without a router? The only thing I
have for cutting curvy stuff is a scroll saw. I can cut close to a line,
but I have serious doubts about doing a satisfactory job on something that
needs tolerances this close.

cut it close with the scroll saw and fit it in there with a sanding
block. make the sanding block by taking a chunk of 2 x 4 and sawing or
jointing a nice clean 90 degrees between a face and an edge. glue some
80 grit sandpaper to the edge and with the insert and the sanding
block both flat on the bench work to the line. if you cut a loading
taper to the underside of the insert with a file or sandpaper first it
will make the fitting go easier. rub the rim of the opening with some
kind of transfer color- graphite pencil, wax crayon or sharpie all
work- and use the marks to guide the sanding block. it's worthwhile to
get the template fitting well- it's a one time effort that will pay
off with each insert you make.


my router is all but absolutely useless, and I can't think
of any other way to make a smooth, precise curve.

the router doesn't make smooth curves by itself- that's all in the
jigs and templates. how are you going to get smoothly curved
templates? hand tooling can do all of the same things, just slower.




Maybe make a circle cutting jig for the TS and cut half circles with it.
That could work, maybe. Fiddly. Not impossible.

circle jigs for the table saw are... OK... for large diameter circles.
trying to cut a small diameter stopped half circle that way sounds
dangerous to me.




It's not spending $22 that bothers me, but needing another $22 when I
eventually get a dado stack, and another $22 for 45-degree bevels and
another $22 for when I want to do 33.275 degree angles for that super
blurfl.


and more $22es as those plastic ones wear out....



Making them myself would be much cheaper.




and get you a better fitting insert than a generic plastic one. and
don't forget being able to have different ones for different angles,
and for dado blades and such.


Yeah.

corners have an annoying tendency to curl up over time. if the
material is going to have any tendency to warp, the amount will be
greatest at the corner....

Oh.

I hate curves. Despise them. Detest them. Abhor them. Right angles and
straight lines are wonderful.


curves are sexier....

I don't want to make love to it, I just want to cut stuff with it.


but you don't want a corner on your zero clearance insert snagging
your board just as it's getting close to the blade.....



Bridger

Glue/attach something on the back of the insert to bring the total
thickness up to whatever the minimum is

John

On 13 Mar 2004 18:07:28 -0800, (Fred the Red
Shirt) wrote:

Unisaw A100 wrote in message . ..
Saw this for the first time in this month's Wood magazine.

http://www.grip-tite.com/splitter.html

To see what it is they are actually referring to go here.

http://www.homestead.com/ValRoseWoodWorks/Splitter.html


I wonder how you use that when your insert is onl 1/16" thick.

Hmm. there may be a way.

Bridger wrote:

Maybe make a circle cutting jig for the TS and cut half circles with it.
That could work, maybe. Fiddly. Not impossible.

circle jigs for the table saw are... OK... for large diameter circles.
trying to cut a small diameter stopped half circle that way sounds
dangerous to me.

That's what I did. It smoked and made lots of rude noise and got burnt crap
all over my brand new blade, but it fits.

Well, after I cut it in half and glued it back together, to shorten it by
5/32". Not sure there that error came from. I measured everything with a
dial caliper and laid out a test drawing with a precision compass before I
cut anything.

So now I have a piece of 3/4" plywood that pretty much just fits into the
opening, and I need to create a rim on the thing to get it fitted down.

I spent five hours on it so far.

Since I don't own a dado set and I haven't moved a saw blade off of 90 in
years, I'm kinda thinking one of those $22 deals is not such a bad thing
after all. I'll have six hours in it, at least, by the time I get it
fitted.

The next one will go a little faster, since I have all the measurements and
the rounding over jig, but it's still a lot of effort for something that
should be simple and quick. I'm not sure if I ever want to cut circles on
the table saw again either. Maybe I should re-make that jig and clamp it
to my scroll saw table. But it takes sixteen hours and three days to cut
thick plywood with that little anemic thing, and breaks 374 blades along
the way. I don't like it much, you might say. Scroll saws are for people
who don't want to get anything cut in a hurry.

I don't want to make love to it, I just want to cut stuff with it.

but you don't want a corner on your zero clearance insert snagging
your board just as it's getting close to the blade.....

Bah. I used a saw with a rectangular insert for years, and this was *never*
a problem.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

With the MDF they are about 50¢ or so. With scraps, even less. What do you
have laying around?--

I've never seen MDF outside of pre-fab el-cheapo furniture. I have a couple
small pieces of 1/2" baltic birch ply and three or four small pieces of
3/4" red oak ply. That's it at the moment.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

"Silvan" wrote in message

I've never seen MDF outside of pre-fab el-cheapo furniture. I have a
couple
small pieces of 1/2" baltic birch ply and three or four small pieces of
3/4" red oak ply. That's it at the moment.

Home Depot $6.49 for a 2 x 4 sheet of 1/2"

I made 6 inserts, then I made a sacrificial fence for the table saw and I
still have half of the sheet.

Email me with the size of your insert and your address and I'll send you a
piece to make an insert.
Ed

Silvan,

I almost has the same problem when making my insert but I had actually
bought a second factory made dado insert (hey I was a newbie and
needed to get stuff done). Since they were both about 1/8th" think, I
stacked them together with some wood and drilled through the bolt
holes. Just put a screw in the hole and the 2 1/8th" insert became a
1/4". Made for easy routing.

I hate hearing people spending $22 they don't have to. I have a delta
and have a bunch of blanks made out. If you have a delta (i think all
their inserts are a standard size, but I only have had 1) let me know,
I'll mail you a couple.

Chuck

Unisaw A100 wrote in message . ..
Saw this for the first time in this month's Wood magazine.

http://www.grip-tite.com/splitter.html

To see what it is they are actually referring to go here....

Seeing how simple this is, do you think it would be just as easy to
use a 1/8th inch machine screw that is tapped into the insert.

That wouldn't even cost $.25.

Chuck

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

I've never seen MDF outside of pre-fab el-cheapo furniture. I have a

Home Depot $6.49 for a 2 x 4 sheet of 1/2"

Up there in Yankee Land maybe.

I haven't looked for it in awhile, granted, since I've been buying lumber
from a real lumber dealer lately. Still, last time I looked, all I could
find was particle board and OSB.

Email me with the size of your insert and your address and I'll send you a
piece to make an insert.

What do you think about 3/4" oak plywood as an insert? That's what I'm
planning to use. I have a few cutoffs with the short grain running across
the width. Not much good for anything else, but it's some nice plywood.
This seems like a good way to use it up and get rid of it.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article ,
Silvan wrote:

What do you think about 3/4" oak plywood as an insert? That's what I'm
planning to use. I have a few cutoffs with the short grain running across
the width. Not much good for anything else, but it's some nice plywood.
This seems like a good way to use it up and get rid of it.

3/4" will almost certainly be too thick and plywood doesn't plane down
real good.....unless you are planning our routing out the bottom for the
support thingies, which would seem to be a lot of pain.

Paul Kierstead wrote:

What do you think about 3/4" oak plywood as an insert? That's what I'm
planning to use. I have a few cutoffs with the short grain running

3/4" will almost certainly be too thick and plywood doesn't plane down
real good.....unless you are planning our routing out the bottom for the
support thingies, which would seem to be a lot of pain.

Oh, routing it out is an inescapable fact of life. The hole has a rim all
the way around, and IIRC the wood around this rim can only be 5/32" thick
without pooching above the table. If I made an entire insert out of
material that thin I would expect serious rigidity problems.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article ,
Silvan wrote:

Oh, routing it out is an inescapable fact of life. The hole has a rim all
the way around, and IIRC the wood around this rim can only be 5/32" thick
without pooching above the table. If I made an entire insert out of
material that thin I would expect serious rigidity problems.

5/32" oak or maple, supported entirely around the rim and accross a
small span is surprisingly ridgid; quite a bit more rigid then plywood
for example. Just a though to save you some effort...

Paul K

Paul Kierstead wrote:


without pooching above the table. If I made an entire insert out of
material that thin I would expect serious rigidity problems.

5/32" oak or maple, supported entirely around the rim and accross a
small span is surprisingly ridgid; quite a bit more rigid then plywood
for example. Just a though to save you some effort...

What about wood movement? I have some pieces of BORG red oak "hobby wood"
from and old project that never got built. They're probably about 1/4"
thick, and after several years in my outdoor shop they're severely cupped.

Think the wood has moved all it's going to move? I could plane them to
5/32" and use them as inserts. Be a helluva lot easier since I don't own a
decent router.

I think I might try this. That wood isn't terribly useful for anything
anyway.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article ,
Silvan wrote:

5/32" oak or maple, supported entirely around the rim and accross a
small span is surprisingly ridgid; quite a bit more rigid then plywood
for example. Just a though to save you some effort...

What about wood movement? I have some pieces of BORG red oak "hobby wood"
from and old project that never got built. They're probably about 1/4"
thick, and after several years in my outdoor shop they're severely cupped.

K, I went an played with a little really thin maple. I gotta admit, 5/32
isn't much; Still, in anycase that is all that will be supporting it.

Think the wood has moved all it's going to move? I could plane them to
5/32" and use them as inserts. Be a helluva lot easier since I don't own a
decent router.

I haven't a clue if they are done moving, but if they move a little a
few months from now, no great loss. You could try plane a little today,
plane a little in a few days...that seems to work much better. Actually,
plane most of it today, plane a little in a few days...

The Grip-tite splitter can be attached under a thin throatplate, with
the splitter pin coming up through an oversize (1/4") hole in the
plate. A countersunk hole has to be drilled in the plate for a flathead
screw. This works well with an 1/8" plate. You will have to be very
careful when you countersink into a 1/16" plate to avoid going too
deep.
A picture is on the http://www.grip-tite.com/splitter.html
page

Jerry J
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
Unisaw A100 wrote in message
. ..
Saw this for the first time in this month's Wood magazine.

http://www.grip-tite.com/splitter.html

To see what it is they are actually referring to go here.

http://www.homestead.com/ValRoseWoodWorks/Splitter.html


I wonder how you use that when your insert is onl 1/16" thick.

Hmm. there may be a way.

--

FF