I have a wood floor to install,
The client chose a pre-finished 3/4 oak.
Now I understand acclimation and such.
On one hand a friend of mine who is into wood floors for years,
and had a business making wood flooring say's you do not have to acclimate
pre-finished wood flooring.
When I read a manual on installing wood floors it says to "acclimate" it.
Who or what is the best practice?
john

On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 07:24:31 -0800, jloomis wrote:

I have a wood floor to install,
The client chose a pre-finished 3/4 oak.
Now I understand acclimation and such.
On one hand a friend of mine who is into wood floors for years,
and had a business making wood flooring say's you do not have to acclimate
pre-finished wood flooring.
When I read a manual on installing wood floors it says to "acclimate" it.
Who or what is the best practice?
john

I would acclimate it, better safe than sorry, at the worst acclimating the
flooring would do nothing.

basilisk

On 12/12/2012 9:24 AM, jloomis wrote:
I have a wood floor to install,
The client chose a pre-finished 3/4 oak.
Now I understand acclimation and such.
On one hand a friend of mine who is into wood floors for years,
and had a business making wood flooring say's you do not have to
acclimate pre-finished wood flooring.
When I read a manual on installing wood floors it says to "acclimate" it.
Who or what is the best practice?

Acclimate ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

"jloomis" wrote in message
...
I have a wood floor to install,
The client chose a pre-finished 3/4 oak.
Now I understand acclimation and such.
On one hand a friend of mine who is into wood floors for years,
and had a business making wood flooring say's you do not have to acclimate
pre-finished wood flooring.
When I read a manual on installing wood floors it says to "acclimate" it.
Who or what is the best practice?
john

If it's prefinished solid wood flooring acclimate it.... If it's thick
laminate flooring it may still benefit from being acclimated if there were
significant climatic differences between the source storage conditions and
the conditions where it is to be installed. Either way, opening the bundles
and letting the flooring acclimate for at least a couple days will not hurt!

John

Yes, I do agree. It was just that I had a window of opportunity to
do the floor before Christmas, and my client was antsy....
I calmed them down, and will wait until Jan. to install.
That way the wood will be allowed to accrue the ambient temp, and moisture
of the
house, and hopefully work out just fine.
john
thanks for the notes

"jloomis" wrote in message ...

I have a wood floor to install,
The client chose a pre-finished 3/4 oak.
Now I understand acclimation and such.
On one hand a friend of mine who is into wood floors for years,
and had a business making wood flooring say's you do not have to acclimate
pre-finished wood flooring.
When I read a manual on installing wood floors it says to "acclimate" it.
Who or what is the best practice?
john

On 12/12/2012 3:06 PM, jloomis wrote:
Yes, I do agree. It was just that I had a window of opportunity to
do the floor before Christmas, and my client was antsy....
I calmed them down, and will wait until Jan. to install.
That way the wood will be allowed to accrue the ambient temp, and
moisture of the
house, and hopefully work out just fine.
john
thanks for the notes

Add my vote for "acclimate" to the rest, John. Makes no sense no to do so.

That said, I don't know that I'd worry about leaving it stacked to
acclimate more than a couple of day (assuming it hadn't been stored in
the bottom of their fish pondg)

Just because your buddy installed floors for years, doesn't necessarily
mean that he was doing it correctly. When had the slab for my
garage/shop poured I wanted a moisture barrier beneath the shop portion.
The concrete contractor, who did great work, told me it was totally
unnecessary as "water cannot penetrate concrete." Yeah, uh, right!

Unquestionably Confused wrote:


Just because your buddy installed floors for years, doesn't
necessarily mean that he was doing it correctly.

That is the quintensential non-argument. Just because he's done it dosen't
mean he was doing it correctly - what does that mean? If he has had no
problems, then he has done it every bit as correctly as anything you would
suggest. After all - just because your suggestions have been around for a
long time does not mean they are correct. What else do we go on, except for
experience? Why do we look to people like Karl and Leon for their
experiences? Yet - you summarily dismiss this contractor that you don't
even know.

When had the slab
for my garage/shop poured I wanted a moisture barrier beneath the shop
portion. The concrete contractor, who did great work, told me it was
totally unnecessary as "water cannot penetrate concrete." Yeah, uh,
right!

You might want to ask him more about what he was speaking about. There are
way too many old wives tales about how things should be done, which hold no
water, than there are real and factual practices. If your concete
contractor is as incompetent as you allude he is, why in the hell did you
use him? But - it does make a good usenet story, doesn't it?

--

-Mike-

You are correct here.
Yes, my friend, "actually brother-in-law" installed "high End" floor
systems,
and none of them are a problem.
I was surprised by his answer that with pre-finished oak, 3/4" you do not
need to acclimate it!
I was suspect, and reading advice in online manuals, they all say,
acclimate.
Then when I thought about it, the wood needs to be dry before finishing it.
right?
And the wood had gone through its movements. right?
And unless the wood was stored in a pond, or a damp garage in the must and
mold, it should be fine. right?
He said the only problem with installing un-acclimated wood is when you
install unfinished wood flooring.
Now the more I think about this, the more I believe him.
I tell you, I never thought I would get so many opinions, and the one that
sticks is the one from a person
who has installed thousands of sq. ft.
hummmm????
john

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

Unquestionably Confused wrote:


Just because your buddy installed floors for years, doesn't
necessarily mean that he was doing it correctly.

That is the quintensential non-argument. Just because he's done it dosen't
mean he was doing it correctly - what does that mean? If he has had no
problems, then he has done it every bit as correctly as anything you would
suggest. After all - just because your suggestions have been around for a
long time does not mean they are correct. What else do we go on, except for
experience? Why do we look to people like Karl and Leon for their
experiences? Yet - you summarily dismiss this contractor that you don't
even know.

When had the slab
for my garage/shop poured I wanted a moisture barrier beneath the shop
portion. The concrete contractor, who did great work, told me it was
totally unnecessary as "water cannot penetrate concrete." Yeah, uh,
right!

You might want to ask him more about what he was speaking about. There are
way too many old wives tales about how things should be done, which hold no
water, than there are real and factual practices. If your concete
contractor is as incompetent as you allude he is, why in the hell did you
use him? But - it does make a good usenet story, doesn't it?

--

-Mike-

On 12/13/2012 12:10 PM, jloomis wrote:
Then when I thought about it, the wood needs to be dry before finishing
it. right?
And the wood had gone through its movements. right?
And unless the wood was stored in a pond, or a damp garage in the must
and mold, it should be fine. right?
He said the only problem with installing un-acclimated wood is when you
install unfinished wood flooring.
Now the more I think about this, the more I believe him.
I tell you, I never thought I would get so many opinions, and the one
that sticks is the one from a person
who has installed thousands of sq. ft.
hummmm????

No hmmm about it, John ... he may know floors, but he apparently does
not fully understand WOOD.

The following is an absolutely unarguable FACT:

"Finish will slow the rate of moisture exchange, it will not stop it.
Material finished on all surfaces will expand or contract at a slower
rate than raw wood, but finished wood will eventually acclimate to EMC
levels."

"Finishes cannot change EMC; they affect only the rate at which
absorption and desorption occur".

The above quoteS are almost verbatim from the US Forest Products Laboratory.

So, as I said before, and if you want to do the job properly ...
"acclimate".

(as a GC who pays attention to such details, I've caused, and bought,
many thousands of board feet of flooring of all types to be installed;
stubbed my toe once or twice, but never over the same issue more than
once ... and I routinely acclimate pre-finished flooring ... it's simply
cheaper in the long run to do so) AND:

!!!especially if you want to maintain the manufacturer's warranty!!!

G

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

When it comes to vapor barriers and concrete.
I agree.
My friend ran Sandy Pond Hardwoods, and actually manufactured wood flooring.
He has 30 years experience in installation, hardwoods, laminate, etc.
He was very careful to let me know that it was not necessary....
So, I do understand our reasoning in acclimation, and then from an
experienced floor person,
I get yet another opinion. hummmmmmm
I was actually hoping to get some work prior to Christmas......
Well, now that I got the pro's and con's, I have made up my mind to let the
floor acclimate, and work
after Christmas.
john

"Unquestionably Confused" wrote in message
.com...

On 12/12/2012 3:06 PM, jloomis wrote:
Yes, I do agree. It was just that I had a window of opportunity to
do the floor before Christmas, and my client was antsy....
I calmed them down, and will wait until Jan. to install.
That way the wood will be allowed to accrue the ambient temp, and
moisture of the
house, and hopefully work out just fine.
john
thanks for the notes

Add my vote for "acclimate" to the rest, John. Makes no sense no to do so.

That said, I don't know that I'd worry about leaving it stacked to
acclimate more than a couple of day (assuming it hadn't been stored in
the bottom of their fish pondg)

Just because your buddy installed floors for years, doesn't necessarily
mean that he was doing it correctly. When had the slab for my
garage/shop poured I wanted a moisture barrier beneath the shop portion.
The concrete contractor, who did great work, told me it was totally
unnecessary as "water cannot penetrate concrete." Yeah, uh, right!

jloomis wrote:
When it comes to vapor barriers and concrete.
I agree.
My friend ran Sandy Pond Hardwoods, and actually manufactured wood
flooring. He has 30 years experience in installation, hardwoods,
laminate, etc. He was very careful to let me know that it was not
necessary....
So, I do understand our reasoning in acclimation, and then from an
experienced floor person,
I get yet another opinion. hummmmmmm
I was actually hoping to get some work prior to Christmas......
Well, now that I got the pro's and con's, I have made up my mind to
let the floor acclimate, and work
after Christmas.

Be very careful who/what you consider to be the "pros" here. There are far
more non-pros here than there are pros. Even within the ranks of the pros,
there is far less factual information behind their recommendations than real
fact. On the other hand - there are those who have detemined some best
practices, and share those - complete with consdierations that may or may
not apply to your location. Be wary of the "experts" that attempt to simply
throw out an answer.

--

-Mike-

On 12/13/2012 1:37 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
jloomis wrote:
When it comes to vapor barriers and concrete.
I agree.
My friend ran Sandy Pond Hardwoods, and actually manufactured wood
flooring. He has 30 years experience in installation, hardwoods,
laminate, etc. He was very careful to let me know that it was not
necessary....
So, I do understand our reasoning in acclimation, and then from an
experienced floor person,
I get yet another opinion. hummmmmmm
I was actually hoping to get some work prior to Christmas......
Well, now that I got the pro's and con's, I have made up my mind to
let the floor acclimate, and work
after Christmas.

Be very careful who/what you consider to be the "pros" here. There are far
more non-pros here than there are pros.

John is likely one of the very few pro's here.

Even within the ranks of the pros,
there is far less factual information behind their recommendations than real
fact. On the other hand - there are those who have detemined some best
practices, and share those - complete with consdierations that may or may
not apply to your location. Be wary of the "experts" that attempt to simply
throw out an answer.

I give you +1 for this and another +1 for your previous answer. However,
I'm deducting 2 points for yellin at John for posting a picture that
actually did contain a tree, and not one post on this topic contained a
picture of anything tree related or not. No, now that I think about it
I'm deducting 3 points for that, so you are down 1:-)

As far as acclimation, I agree with the guy that manufactured and
installed floors for 30+ years, and more over, would ask, acclimate to
what? Winter? Summer, air on, air off? Exposed to sun, in the shade,
what exactly? I would worry more about where it was made, dried and
stored (rain forest/desert/down the road a bit) than if I left it alone
for a few days. Solid wood will move finished or not, so install with
that in mind.

Moreover moreover, I've installed two prefinished floors in my life, did
not acclimate anything on purpose, and had no problems. I also don't
acclimate anything I make in my wood shop, on purpose. Slow as I am,
acclimation usually occurs w/o intent, but the emc changes with the
weather any way. So who would you believe, me, or a
manufacturer/installer that is a friend?

If it were me and I had other work I wanted to do first, I'd acclimate,
if not, I would take the professional friends advice and get it on.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 12/13/2012 09:03 AM, jloomis wrote:
When it comes to vapor barriers and concrete.
I agree.
My friend ran Sandy Pond Hardwoods, and actually manufactured wood
flooring.
He has 30 years experience in installation, hardwoods, laminate, etc.
He was very careful to let me know that it was not necessary....
So, I do understand our reasoning in acclimation, and then from an
experienced floor person,
I get yet another opinion. hummmmmmm
I was actually hoping to get some work prior to Christmas......
Well, now that I got the pro's and con's, I have made up my mind to let
the floor acclimate, and work
after Christmas.

The whole point of acclimation is so any expansion/shrinkage due to a
large variation in the EMC can happen up front. If it's a floating
floor, I'd think a guy could probably lay 95% of it down, leaving just
the last few courses at the far edge undone. Then let it sit, and move
as it will. After a week, come back and finish up the remaining runs.

As long as there's plenty of room for expansion and the opportunity to
fill in if it shrinks I'd think you'd be good to go...

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
"In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car."
- Lawrence Summers