On 11/26/2012 9:12 AM, Dave wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 08:29:42 -0600, "Dave In Texas"
trigger the work starts." Before I shoot my next whitetail I must install
an ATV-sized 12-volt winch. Getting this guy into the back of a 2500 Z71
even with the 2X12 TYP ramps [got wood into the story!] was a monumental
struggle.

That's a pile of bull****. You're trying to say that it's morally ok
for you to go out and kill deer because you have to put some effort
into the act?

Whether it's the pleasure of the sport, the taste of venison or just
base bloodlust, it all ends up being the same thing. You hunt and kill
solely for pleasure.

It's NOT for survival and it's NOT a necessity. At least be man enough
to admit that you do it purely for pleasure.



So Dave, what opinion do you have of the people that work in and like
the cattle industry or the butchers that like their jobs?
What does it really matter whether you enjoy getting you meat this way
or that way, an animal dies either way.

Personally I have dislikde hunting since I was a kid. I never cared for
the taste of venison, and the thrill of the hunt never never ever never
ever balanced out the work that began after pulling the trigger.
What we shot went from the field to the freezer, no outside services used.

On 11/26/2012 8:19 PM, Dave wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 20:47:20 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
That is the problem that folks who assume high moral positions have. They
can not allow anybody to introduce logic or intelligence into the
conversation. I pointed out how eating wild game was HEALTHIER than regular
meet at the supermarket. You obviously think it is better to get cancer and
die rather than eat an uncontaminated meat source. Are you a PETA member?

Have you ever heard of chronic wasting disease?
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/cwd/

How about Toxoplasmosis?
http://www.dnr.sc.gov/news/yr2011/oct27/oct27_toxo.html

Maybe you've heard of Bovine Tuberculosis?
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/deerhealth.html

Your blind assertion that deer meat is healthy is full of holes. I
wonder how many hunters take their deer meat in to have to analyzed?
My guess would be that the number approaches "0". Food and water
directed to human consumption is inspected on a regular basis.



LOL... I would suggest that meat in the super market is inspected
because the provider and all those in the middle have a quota to fill.
Does the meat provider care if the animal had eyes that glowed green in
day light, does he care if the animal appeared sickly before slaughter,
does he care if the animal looks like it may have been impregnated by an
alien? Not if there were no inspections up line.

The lone hunter hunting for himself would probably think twice if he
shot something that had the above symptoms.

On 11/25/2012 9:10 AM, Dave In Texas wrote:
24 November, Karnes County, Texas.
Good buck, not a great buck.

Dave in Texas


In fairness to Dave, I hope to think that he is more focused and
talking about the hunter that thinks that it makes him a man when he
shoots his first deer, the guy that spends tens of thousands of dollars
on the sport, the guy that eats, sleeps, and poops deer hunting.

But then there is the guy that goes out in the morning on his property,
lifts his gun, shoots, and salvages the meat for himself. With no
victory parade or bragging.

The following is an article appearing in the Daily_Record, the local
newspaper located in Wooster, OH which is about 50 miles south of
Cleveland, OH.

Although there is a considerable amount of industry in Wayne county,
the area remains very much agricultrial.

SFWIW, Canaan has a population of maybe 100 people on a good day.

Last time I was there was a "Stop" sign to control traffic.

Definitely a "Wide place in the road" type of place.

Enjoy

Lew
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

As deer-gun season begins hunters donate venison to Farmers and
Hunters Feeding the Hungry
Hunters donate venison to help others in the community

By ART HOLDEN Daily Record Outdoor Editor Published: November 27, 2012
4:00AM

CANAAN -- Ohio's deer-gun season, and in particular, opening day of
the season, is a day that over 400,000 hunters look forward to each
year. It pumps millions of dollars into the state's economy, and for
the past four years, has also helped fill area food pantries.

Farmers and Hunters Feeding the Hungry is a nationwide program that
encourages hunters to donate venison, and Monday morning, Gary Singer
of Orrville was the first to drop off a deer for the program at Canaan
Meats in Canaan.

"I shot two deer during the bow season and I've got so much meat in
the freezer. I had an extra tag, so I figured I'd donate this one,"
said Singer, who took the time off from working at Smith Dairy to go
hunting.

"I'm mainly a bow hunter, but there's something special about opening
day of the gun season," he added. "I still had three tree stands up on
the property I hunt in Coshocton County. I had to go back there to
take them down, so I might as well hunt."

Singer, hunting with a hand gun, shot a young doe. He field dressed it
and took the back straps out, then donated the rest of the meat to
FHFH.

"There's still a lot of meat on that deer," he said. "People donate
canned vegetables, but they don't donate meat. This is as good as it
gets."

Canaan Meats owners Tim Morris and Ryan Lilly said participating in
the FHFH program is the right thing to do.

"It's a way to give back to the

community," said Morris. "Some of this meat goes to the Creston Food
Bank and area churches. It definitely costs us money to do it, but
that's not the point. The point is to help people in the community."

Across the U.S., FHFH raises funds and pays meat processing plants to
process donated venison and other big game. They don't get involved in
making fancy cuts of meat, deer sticks or jerky, but instead grind it
up into hamburger and freeze it. Canaan Meats, though, goes the extra
mile and adds beef and pork fat to the ground venison to improve the
quality of the product.

"Last year we (processed) between 20 and 30 (FHFH) deer, and this year
we're already halfway there," said Lilly. "There's a lot of people out
there that are really into hunting, but not into the meat, so they
donate the deer."

John Abele, of the Ohio Division of Wildlife, says the program is a
win-win for all involved.

"Think about it, it provides a lot of people with meat," said Abele,
who was at Canaan Meats aging deer for the Division of Wildlife. "The
way the economy is, there are a lot of people out there that need this
meat. Instead of it going to waste, people are utilizing these deer."


Meat plants participating in FHFH in Wayne County include Canaan
Meats, Shreve Custom Meats, Tucker Packing (Orrville) and Yoder Custom
Meats (Fredericksburg). In Holmes County, Miller's Custom Meats
(Millersburg) and Goedel's Farmerstown Meats (Sugarcreek) are
participating in FHFH.

Another deer hunting story from Wayne County, OHIO.

IMHO, that 20ga load was probably a slug.

Enjoy.

Lew
--------------------------------------------------------------

Hostetlers are fans of youth season
And Evan's 15-pointer is the proof

By ART HOLDEN Daily Record Outdoor Editor Published: November 26, 2012
4:00AM

WOOSTER -- Heath Hostetler is an avid whitetail deer bow hunter, and
he's also a fan of the Ohio Division of Wildlife's weekend set aside
for youth to gun hunt deer.

His two boys are fans as well.

Over the past four years, the Hostetlers have made good use of the
youth season, and last weekend, 13-year-old Evan Hostetler was one of
over 9,000 Ohio youth to find success during the two-day season. The
John R. Lea seventh grader dropped a fine 15-pointer while hunting in
a ground blind with his father in East Union Township.

"That's the best thing the state has done, giving kids the opportunity
to get the first crack," said Heath Hostetler. "They're the future of
the sport, and if you don't get them started, the sport may not be
here in the future. I enjoy seeing a child shoot anything, a doe or a
buck, so the two-day youth season -- I'm all for it.

"You're hunting at the end of the rut with a shotgun, you can't get
any better circumstances than that for the youth."

Getting his children started in hunting has been important to Heath,
and Evan, for one, is glad his father has taken the time to teach him,
and his older brother Graham, the ropes.

"Dad's great, because he's been able to teach us the basics, and now
we're learning more about strategies," said Evan. "He shows us how to
hunt woods and ravines, fields and do deer drives.

"I'm lucky to have a dad who puts me on deer."

Heath says its partly luck that he's found places to take some nice
whitetails over the years, but notes that it's been different
locations for different deer. The one constant is that Heath likes to
hunt out of ground blinds.

"In a ground blind, you're going to give off scent," said Heath, "so
we spray doe in heat around us. I recommend to anyone using a ground
blink to spray that. We use three-legged dove seats and make ground
blinds."

Reading the terrain and time of season puts the Hostetlers in the best
possible situation for success.

This past weekend, that meant setting up on the edge of a picked corn
field, and overlooking a ravine, where Heath was hoping a young buck
would work its way up to feed on the edge of the field. Instead, it
was a 15-point bruiser.

"Dad said, 'here comes a monster,' and I got my gun up," said Evan.
"It must have just gotten up from being bedded down because he still
had frost on his antlers.

"I think it's the best I'll shoot the rest of my life," Evan added of
the deer that green-scored 169. "It's going to be a hard to beat this
one."

Evan shot the deer with the same Remington 20 gauge his grandfather
gave to Heath when Heath was a young teen.

"It's gone through three generations," said Evan, who also uses the
gun to rabbit and dove hunt.

Evan's brother Graham, a Waynedale freshman, took a 6-pointer with a
crossbow back in October.

"It's all about taking the kids out and getting them a shot at deer,"
Heath said. "They're going to be grown up before you know it."

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:33:34 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
So Dave, what opinion do you have of the people that work in and like
the cattle industry or the butchers that like their jobs?
What does it really matter whether you enjoy getting you meat this way
or that way, an animal dies either way.

It appears my opinion on hunting has been misunderstood, probably
because I didn't explain it properly.

I'm not a vegan and I'm not against the consumption of meat. I eat it
regularly. Meat for the most part is a large part of our North
American diet. I understand that and don't have much of a problem with
it.

I'm down on the hunting part of it because the killing is frequently a
long drawn out process. When an animal is killed in an abattoir, it's
usually done quickly and is over. The animal is dead.

The same can't be said about hunting. Often an animal is shot and it
continues to run for some time. Injured, in great pain, completely
terrorized without any understanding of what's going in, it attempts
to survive. If the animal is lucky, the hunter tracks it down quickly
and puts it out of it's misery. Many times, the injured animal is not
so lucky and the hunter doesn't find it to kill it. So, the animal
gets away to bleed to death or something else.

Personally, I can't imagine the horror an animal must feel under those
circumstances. That's what I'm railing against. If an animal was
*always* killed quickly and cleanly every time, then I wouldn't have
much to say. But, it frequently doesn't happen that way.

Now, do you understand what I'm saying?

On 11/27/2012 5:20 PM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:33:34 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
So Dave, what opinion do you have of the people that work in and like
the cattle industry or the butchers that like their jobs?
What does it really matter whether you enjoy getting you meat this way
or that way, an animal dies either way.

It appears my opinion on hunting has been misunderstood, probably
because I didn't explain it properly.

I'm not a vegan and I'm not against the consumption of meat. I eat it
regularly. Meat for the most part is a large part of our North
American diet. I understand that and don't have much of a problem with
it.

I'm down on the hunting part of it because the killing is frequently a
long drawn out process. When an animal is killed in an abattoir, it's
usually done quickly and is over. The animal is dead.

The same can't be said about hunting. Often an animal is shot and it
continues to run for some time. Injured, in great pain, completely
terrorized without any understanding of what's going in, it attempts
to survive. If the animal is lucky, the hunter tracks it down quickly
and puts it out of it's misery. Many times, the injured animal is not
so lucky and the hunter doesn't find it to kill it. So, the animal
gets away to bleed to death or something else.

Personally, I can't imagine the horror an animal must feel under those
circumstances. That's what I'm railing against. If an animal was
*always* killed quickly and cleanly every time, then I wouldn't have
much to say. But, it frequently doesn't happen that way.

Now, do you understand what I'm saying?


Ok, I can understand that, but can you understand what a cat or coyotees
would do to that deer. It's a lot more gruesome.

And what about the families that are lost or torn apart while a parent
is dying because a deer came through the windshield or hit a tree.

On 11/27/2012 4:20 PM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:33:34 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
So Dave, what opinion do you have of the people that work in and like
the cattle industry or the butchers that like their jobs?
What does it really matter whether you enjoy getting you meat this way
or that way, an animal dies either way.

It appears my opinion on hunting has been misunderstood, probably
because I didn't explain it properly.

I'm not a vegan and I'm not against the consumption of meat. I eat it
regularly. Meat for the most part is a large part of our North
American diet. I understand that and don't have much of a problem with
it.

I'm down on the hunting part of it because the killing is frequently a
long drawn out process. When an animal is killed in an abattoir, it's
usually done quickly and is over. The animal is dead.

The same can't be said about hunting. Often an animal is shot and it
continues to run for some time. Injured, in great pain, completely
terrorized without any understanding of what's going in, it attempts
to survive. If the animal is lucky, the hunter tracks it down quickly
and puts it out of it's misery. Many times, the injured animal is not
so lucky and the hunter doesn't find it to kill it. So, the animal
gets away to bleed to death or something else.

Personally, I can't imagine the horror an animal must feel under those
circumstances. That's what I'm railing against. If an animal was
*always* killed quickly and cleanly every time, then I wouldn't have
much to say. But, it frequently doesn't happen that way.

Now, do you understand what I'm saying?


Yes I understand what you are saying but keep in mind, and I have
watched this in undercover journalist stories on TV, slaughter houses
often present the same end of life experience for the cattle as the
poorly placed bullet does for the deer.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 22:49:19 -0500, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com
wrote:

Ok, I can understand that, but can you understand what a cat or coyotees
would do to that deer. It's a lot more gruesome.

And what about the families that are lost or torn apart while a parent
is dying because a deer came through the windshield or hit a tree.

You're kidding right? What you're trying to say is that the hunter is
really doing a deer a favor by shooting by shooting it first? Really
now. Isn't that a little bit ridiculous?

It's not even remotely guaranteed that a deer is going to die by your
cat, coyote, car or any number of other ways to die . If it was, the
deer population would have died out and gone into extinction a long
time ago. Instead, the deer population is thriving. So much so, that
culling them is necessary in many areas.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 23:06:34 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Yes I understand what you are saying but keep in mind, and I have
watched this in undercover journalist stories on TV, slaughter houses
often present the same end of life experience for the cattle as the
poorly placed bullet does for the deer.

Really? I'm aware that the life of an animal bred for consumption can
be a horrendous one, but I've never heard of them being killed slowly
or painfully.

I could well be wrong, but to me that doesn't make sense. If anything
the wholesale killing and marketing of animals is deadly efficient.
Anything less is unprofitable. An animal thrashing around and taking
time to die in an abattoir *is* unprofitable.

Maybe, I'm naive in believing that inspections and public knowledge
keep the larger meat processing corporations generally in line. That
much I'm willing to admit, but I personally haven't viewed any of
those undercover journalist stories that you're referring to.

On 11/28/2012 1:26 AM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 23:06:34 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Yes I understand what you are saying but keep in mind, and I have
watched this in undercover journalist stories on TV, slaughter houses
often present the same end of life experience for the cattle as the
poorly placed bullet does for the deer.

Really? I'm aware that the life of an animal bred for consumption can
be a horrendous one, but I've never heard of them being killed slowly
or painfully.

The cattle are gathered tightly in a holding area and funneled down to a
retention slot where they ar hit on the head with a pneumatic type
hammer. Most of the time a single shot is all that is necessary, on
several occasions 3 or 4 hits were needed and the remaining hits were
not immediate. Mean while the doomed cattle next in line are crapping
themselves.



I could well be wrong, but to me that doesn't make sense. If anything
the wholesale killing and marketing of animals is deadly efficient.
Anything less is unprofitable. An animal thrashing around and taking
time to die in an abattoir *is* unprofitable.

Yes very efficient, cost wise, but absolutely not a sure thing first,
second, or third try.


Maybe, I'm naive in believing that inspections and public knowledge
keep the larger meat processing corporations generally in line. That
much I'm willing to admit, but I personally haven't viewed any of
those undercover journalist stories that you're referring to.


The story was covering lapses in inspections and inspectors being paid
to look the other way.

On 11/28/2012 1:12 AM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 22:49:19 -0500, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com
wrote:

Ok, I can understand that, but can you understand what a cat or coyotees
would do to that deer. It's a lot more gruesome.

And what about the families that are lost or torn apart while a parent
is dying because a deer came through the windshield or hit a tree.

You're kidding right? What you're trying to say is that the hunter is
really doing a deer a favor by shooting by shooting it first? Really
now. Isn't that a little bit ridiculous?

It's not even remotely guaranteed that a deer is going to die by your
cat, coyote, car or any number of other ways to die . If it was, the
deer population would have died out and gone into extinction a long
time ago. Instead, the deer population is thriving. So much so, that
culling them is necessary in many areas.



Actually as any wild animal ages it typically is spotted by predictors
long before they are actually dead. Wild life typically does not die of
old age and rot, it is spotted long before it actually dies and
predictors help that process along. They like fresh meat too. Have you
ever seen vultures circling in the sky? So have the coyotes and wolves.

On 11/28/2012 07:39 AM, Leon wrote:
On 11/28/2012 1:12 AM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 22:49:19 -0500, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com
wrote:

Ok, I can understand that, but can you understand what a cat or coyotees
would do to that deer. It's a lot more gruesome.

And what about the families that are lost or torn apart while a parent
is dying because a deer came through the windshield or hit a tree.

You're kidding right? What you're trying to say is that the hunter is
really doing a deer a favor by shooting by shooting it first? Really
now. Isn't that a little bit ridiculous?

It's not even remotely guaranteed that a deer is going to die by your
cat, coyote, car or any number of other ways to die . If it was, the
deer population would have died out and gone into extinction a long
time ago. Instead, the deer population is thriving. So much so, that
culling them is necessary in many areas.



Actually as any wild animal ages it typically is spotted by predictors
long before they are actually dead. Wild life typically does not die of
old age and rot, it is spotted long before it actually dies and
predictors help that process along. They like fresh meat too. Have you
ever seen vultures circling in the sky? So have the coyotes and wolves.

I predict you meant "predators" :-)


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 09:10:28 -0600, "Dave In Texas"
wrote:

24 November, Karnes County, Texas.
Good buck, not a great buck.

Dave in Texas


Just found this...

On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 08:39:49 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Actually as any wild animal ages it typically is spotted by predators
long before they are actually dead. Wild life typically does not die of
old age and rot, it is spotted long before it actually dies and
predictors help that process along. They like fresh meat too. Have you
ever seen vultures circling in the sky? So have the coyotes and wolves.

Sure, that's just nature surviving as it can. Which leads back to my
original argument that man, at least in our society doesn't hunt for
survival, he hunts for pleasure and occasionally, not very
efficiently. We still have the killer instinct, but it's not needed to
feed ourselves, at least not in the same way. Big difference in my
view.

But, I'm repeating myself at this point. I likely won't reply any more
to this thread.

On 11/28/2012 8:50 AM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 11/28/2012 07:39 AM, Leon wrote:
On 11/28/2012 1:12 AM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 22:49:19 -0500, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com
wrote:

Ok, I can understand that, but can you understand what a cat or
coyotees
would do to that deer. It's a lot more gruesome.

And what about the families that are lost or torn apart while a parent
is dying because a deer came through the windshield or hit a tree.

You're kidding right? What you're trying to say is that the hunter is
really doing a deer a favor by shooting by shooting it first? Really
now. Isn't that a little bit ridiculous?

It's not even remotely guaranteed that a deer is going to die by your
cat, coyote, car or any number of other ways to die . If it was, the
deer population would have died out and gone into extinction a long
time ago. Instead, the deer population is thriving. So much so, that
culling them is necessary in many areas.



Actually as any wild animal ages it typically is spotted by predictors
long before they are actually dead. Wild life typically does not die of
old age and rot, it is spotted long before it actually dies and
predictors help that process along. They like fresh meat too. Have you
ever seen vultures circling in the sky? So have the coyotes and wolves.

I predict you meant "predators" :-)



Correct! you caught the mistake. You win. LOL

Darian wrote in
:


begin 644 Warning....jpg

Attachment decoded: Warning....jpg
`
end


The woodworking newsgroup has officially become Hee Haw Instagram.

On 11/28/2012 2:12 AM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 22:49:19 -0500, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com
wrote:

Ok, I can understand that, but can you understand what a cat or coyotees
would do to that deer. It's a lot more gruesome.

And what about the families that are lost or torn apart while a parent
is dying because a deer came through the windshield or hit a tree.

You're kidding right? What you're trying to say is that the hunter is
really doing a deer a favor by shooting by shooting it first? Really
now. Isn't that a little bit ridiculous?

It's not even remotely guaranteed that a deer is going to die by your
cat, coyote, car or any number of other ways to die . If it was, the
deer population would have died out and gone into extinction a long
time ago. Instead, the deer population is thriving. So much so, that
culling them is necessary in many areas.

You are one twisted mother ****er.
Your an idiot.
The hunter is doing some family a favor by lowering the herd you idiot.

But you are so ****ing twisted you can't think clearly.

And what I am talking about is culling them. You can't see the forrest
for the trees.

On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 21:22:06 -0500, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com
It's not even remotely guaranteed that a deer is going to die by your
cat, coyote, car or any number of other ways to die . If it was, the
deer population would have died out and gone into extinction a long
time ago. Instead, the deer population is thriving. So much so, that
culling them is necessary in many areas.

You are one twisted mother ****er.
Your an idiot.
The hunter is doing some family a favor by lowering the herd you idiot.

But you are so ****ing twisted you can't think clearly.

And what I am talking about is culling them. You can't see the forrest
for the trees.

Well, obviously you can't read and you certainly can't spell, so
opinions you might have on the subject are totally invalid.

"Your an idiot" should be "You're an idiot". "forrest" is spelled
"forest" or you've watched Forrest Gump too many times.
And finally, I *did* mention it being necessary to cull deer in many
places as evidenced on the bottom line of my paragraph at the top.

But, since you're so dead set on killing deer, here you can kill these
two. They've been bothering my cat.

On 11/29/2012 10:21 PM, Dave wrote:

Wow, wish they'd come up on my porch. It's a lot of work packing them
out of the woods!
;-)

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
"In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car."
- Lawrence Summers

Dave wrote:

I never saw a picture like that before. Thanks!

The cat looks real brave behind the glass pane!

Bill

Dave wrote:

I never saw a picture like that before. Thanks!

The cat looks real brave behind the glass pane!

Bill