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What should I use for finishing bowls?
I want a good finish for my natural edge bowls. I've used tung oil, tung
oil mixed with mineral spirit and now use Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil which I like a lot better than the other two. I also tried Formby's Tung Oil finish and didn't really like it. It seemed more brittle and crystalline. I want a penetrating type with oil, like an oil varnish to protect my natural edge bowls. One criteria is a faster build than what I'm getting. Some bowls like pine and birch may take up to about 7-10 coats. Most bowls including apple, cherry and maple take at least 4 coats. One member of my local club suggested TruOil and I'm leaning toward that based on good comments in the archives. Any other suggestions? I'll be ordering the Russell CD's when he intros the new one, but I need to get a gallon soon. Thanks, Derek |
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#2
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What should I use for finishing bowls?
On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:25:30 -0700, "Derek Hartzell"
wrote: I want a good finish for my natural edge bowls. I've used tung oil, tung oil mixed with mineral spirit and now use Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil which I like a lot better than the other two. I also tried Formby's Tung Oil finish and didn't really like it. It seemed more brittle and crystalline. I want a penetrating type with oil, like an oil varnish to protect my natural edge bowls. One criteria is a faster build than what I'm getting. Some bowls like pine and birch may take up to about 7-10 coats. Most bowls including apple, cherry and maple take at least 4 coats. One member of my local club suggested TruOil and I'm leaning toward that based on good comments in the archives. Any other suggestions? I'll be ordering the Russell CD's when he intros the new one, but I need to get a gallon soon. Thanks, Derek Make your own. There's no fine line between danish oils and wiping varnishes and brushing varnishes. the basic ingredients are an oil or 2, a solvent and a resin (varnish). get a can each of tung oil, linseed oil, paint thinner, turpentine and a good hard gloss varnish. Don't worry about the gloss- it'll disappear in the mix, but gloss varnishes are what you want for this. a classic recipe is equal parts oil, varnish and thinner. start there and adjust to your preference. you may want 2 or more mixes, a thin one for the first penetrating layer and thicker ones to get build. |
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#4
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In article ,
"Steven D. Russell" wrote: One thing to consider when whipping up a batch of your own oil is that Linseed Oil and Pure Gum Spirits of Turpentine will alter (darken) the colour of your wood over time. Linseed oil has a habit of turning very dark to almost black over long periods of time... Go to any antique store and you will see this on old pieces finished with Linseed oil. Currently, there is no way to chemically reverse the colour degradation caused by Linseed oil. Are you sure this same result would occur with modern boil't linseed oil? I've heard the argument that the antiques that appear dark may be due to the much dirtier heating systems of old - oil, coal and wood soot becoming embedded in the finish. (I do know that raw linseed oil used outdoors will often host mildew which will turn it very dark- but that's a different situation.) |
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#5
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Hello Owen,
No doubt dirty conditions in days long past contribute to the colour of antiques, but the propensity of Linseed oil to darken is well known in chemistry circles. I know of a few chemists who have spent years trying to find a way to chemically reverse this problem with Linseed oil. No one has ever been able to reverse the colour change without damaging the wood, which is obviously undesirable. Should you find a way, you would no doubt be a very rich man. Raw Linseed oil is the raw oil that has been packaged without any additives. Boiled Linseed Oils are similar, except the boiled version has been altered through the addition of chemical drying accelerators (solvents and siccatives/driers) and may also include up to 15% Stand Oil, so the colour change would be similar, if not more apparent in the boiled version. Driers are oil soluble metal salts of organic acids. When these driers are dissolved in aliphatic or aromatic hydrocarbons, they are know as siccatives. When driers are added to drying oils, they are known as "Boiled Oils" Siccatives can also cause colour changes, depending on the specific types used. -- Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry... Steven D. Russell Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio The Woodlands, Texas Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning Industries ³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #1 CD ROM * Available Volume #2 CD ROM/DVD Video * Available Soon On 8/18/04 9:48 PM, in article , "Owen Lowe" wrote: In article , "Steven D. Russell" wrote: One thing to consider when whipping up a batch of your own oil is that Linseed Oil and Pure Gum Spirits of Turpentine will alter (darken) the colour of your wood over time. Linseed oil has a habit of turning very dark to almost black over long periods of time... Go to any antique store and you will see this on old pieces finished with Linseed oil. Currently, there is no way to chemically reverse the colour degradation caused by Linseed oil. Are you sure this same result would occur with modern boil't linseed oil? I've heard the argument that the antiques that appear dark may be due to the much dirtier heating systems of old - oil, coal and wood soot becoming embedded in the finish. (I do know that raw linseed oil used outdoors will often host mildew which will turn it very dark- but that's a different situation.) |
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#6
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Hi Steven,
I use Tried and True polymerized linseed oil which is supposed to have no solvents or driers. I use a UV light booth to accelerate the drying and find that the color change is what I would expect if I left the wood in direct sunlight for a period of time. Any thoughts on whether or not your experiments with UV inhibitors might prevent the "normal" change I am seeing? ps - glad to have you back! George "Steven D. Russell" wrote in message ... Hello Owen, No doubt dirty conditions in days long past contribute to the colour of antiques, but the propensity of Linseed oil to darken is well known in chemistry circles. I know of a few chemists who have spent years trying to find a way to chemically reverse this problem with Linseed oil. No one has ever been able to reverse the colour change without damaging the wood, which is obviously undesirable. Should you find a way, you would no doubt be a very rich man. Raw Linseed oil is the raw oil that has been packaged without any additives. Boiled Linseed Oils are similar, except the boiled version has been altered through the addition of chemical drying accelerators (solvents and siccatives/driers) and may also include up to 15% Stand Oil, so the colour change would be similar, if not more apparent in the boiled version. Driers are oil soluble metal salts of organic acids. When these driers are dissolved in aliphatic or aromatic hydrocarbons, they are know as siccatives. When driers are added to drying oils, they are known as "Boiled Oils" Siccatives can also cause colour changes, depending on the specific types used. -- Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry... Steven D. Russell Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio The Woodlands, Texas Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning Industries ³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #1 CD ROM * Available Volume #2 CD ROM/DVD Video * Available Soon On 8/18/04 9:48 PM, in article , "Owen Lowe" wrote: In article , "Steven D. Russell" wrote: One thing to consider when whipping up a batch of your own oil is that Linseed Oil and Pure Gum Spirits of Turpentine will alter (darken) the colour of your wood over time. Linseed oil has a habit of turning very dark to almost black over long periods of time... Go to any antique store and you will see this on old pieces finished with Linseed oil. Currently, there is no way to chemically reverse the colour degradation caused by Linseed oil. Are you sure this same result would occur with modern boil't linseed oil? I've heard the argument that the antiques that appear dark may be due to the much dirtier heating systems of old - oil, coal and wood soot becoming embedded in the finish. (I do know that raw linseed oil used outdoors will often host mildew which will turn it very dark- but that's a different situation.) |
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#7
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What should I use for finishing bowls?
In article ,
"Derek Hartzell" wrote: I want a good finish for my natural edge bowls. I've used tung oil, tung oil mixed with mineral spirit and now use Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil which I like a lot better than the other two. I also tried Formby's Tung Oil finish and didn't really like it. It seemed more brittle and crystalline. I want a penetrating type with oil, like an oil varnish to protect my natural edge bowls. One criteria is a faster build than what I'm getting. Some bowls like pine and birch may take up to about 7-10 coats. Most bowls including apple, cherry and maple take at least 4 coats. One member of my local club suggested TruOil and I'm leaning toward that based on good comments in the archives. Any other suggestions? I'll be ordering the Russell CD's when he intros the new one, but I need to get a gallon soon. I like the medium-luster sheen that my homade oil-varnish blend yields. The specific components a Behlen's Rock Hard Varnish; boiled linseed oil or 100% tung oil; and VMP naptha. Resins: The Behlen's is very high in resins compared with the standard and spar varnishes one finds at hardware and home centers. I prefer Behlen's Rock Hard Tabletop Varnish which is a "short oil" compared to the standard varnish's "medium oil". What this means is that the amount of oils (like BLO) put into the can by the manufacturer is less and it therefore contains more hard curing resin. (Spar is a "long oil" - much more oil to resin to yield a more flexible finish which is needed with wood movement due to weather exposure.) The advantage of using alkyd type resin instead of a polyurethane resin is that the alkyds are easier to repair. The poly's are really, really tough but one may encounter adhesion problems if additional coats are applied after the initial application cures out or if you need to fix a scuff or ding. I hardly ever use poly except with pieces that will be subject to heavy wear or direct liquid contact. Oils: Tung vs. BLO: I use whatever is handy. Boiled linseed oil is less expensive and quite widely available compared to 100% tung oil. Tung oil will amber-tint the wood to a lesser degree, but by the time the amber-colored varnish is applied, I don't think you'll see much difference between the two oils. Solvents: I prefer VMP Naptha or real Turpentine. Naptha evaporates more quickly; turpentine more slowly. I prefer either one over mineral spirits due to its strong smell - even the "odorless", which to my nose, isn't. The factors to take into consideration are the odor you are subjected to during the applications and the evaporation rate. If it's cool to cold, the slower evaporation rates will slow the whole curing process down and drag out the time between coats. Naptha is a fairly fast evaporator - turpentine and min. spirits are slower. Generally I use the Behlen's combined with boiled linseed and VMP Naptha. The mix ratio I favor is roughly 2 parts varnish, 1 part oil and 1 to 2 parts thinnner. The amount of thinner is the most uncritical of all since it evaporates leaving the other two behind as the finish. Too little solvent though and it can be like trying to apply honey to the surface and too much solvent takes a long time to build sufficient film. The mix builds pretty quickly. My technique is to rub and rub and rub the mixture into the wood and then buff with a soft cloth. I repeat the process a few more times with 24 hour drying times between coats and get a nice semi-gloss sheen which appears pretty tough. |
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#8
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What should I use for finishing bowls?
I assume you're concerned about applying before the piece is dried?
If so, use the dilute wiping varnishes/Danish oils followed by less dilute with the same resin. Don't think I'd go as long on the oil as the solvent, though. Makes the finish soft. If not worried about moisture beneath, it's tough to beat shellac for ease, build, and reparability. Since this type of bowl will likely see dry use only, if at all, you needn't worry about durability. http://www.woodfinishingsupplies.com/ to mix your own. Quick and dirty finish http://personalpages.tds.net/~upgeorge/Pin%20three.htm "Derek Hartzell" wrote in message ... One criteria is a faster build than what I'm getting. Some bowls like pine and birch may take up to about 7-10 coats. Most bowls including apple, cherry and maple take at least 4 coats. One member of my local club suggested TruOil and I'm leaning toward that based on good comments in the archives. Any other suggestions? I'll be ordering the Russell CD's when he intros the new one, but I need to get a gallon soon. |
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#9
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What should I use for finishing bowls?
The easiest, and it looks very good, is super blond shellac and wax (I
happen to use Briwax). Apply a couple of coats of shellac with a clean cloth that is fairly saturated. (You can speed the drying process by using the friction of the cloth on the shellac) Allow to set for a couple of minutes, burnish with 0000 steel wool, 320 sandpaper or wood shaving and apply a couple of coats of wax, buffing to a shine between. The whole process takes about 10 minutes on a 12" bowl. Deb Derek Hartzell wrote: I want a good finish for my natural edge bowls. I've used tung oil, tung oil mixed with mineral spirit and now use Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil which I like a lot better than the other two. I also tried Formby's Tung Oil finish and didn't really like it. It seemed more brittle and crystalline. I want a penetrating type with oil, like an oil varnish to protect my natural edge bowls. One criteria is a faster build than what I'm getting. Some bowls like pine and birch may take up to about 7-10 coats. Most bowls including apple, cherry and maple take at least 4 coats. One member of my local club suggested TruOil and I'm leaning toward that based on good comments in the archives. Any other suggestions? I'll be ordering the Russell CD's when he intros the new one, but I need to get a gallon soon. Thanks, Derek |
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#10
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What should I use for finishing bowls?
I want a good finish for my natural edge bowls. BRBR I like Lee Valley's Polymerized Tung Oil Sealer. It's easy to apply and dries in 24 hours. It can be buffed after drying if you want a higher luster, or you can follow it with their Polymerized Tung Oil which will add to the gloss. -Jim Gott- San Jose, CA |
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#11
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What should I use for finishing bowls?
I have had very good success with Minwax Polyurethane in either gloss or
semi-gloss formulas. Sand to 320 or higher, slop on a heavy coat of poly and keep wet for a few minutes. Then wipe it off. Turn the lathe on and burnish it in with a soft cloth. An old T-shirt works great. One or two coats is usually all you need. It's incredibly simple and easy. Try it. Barry "Derek Hartzell" wrote in message ... I want a good finish for my natural edge bowls. I've used tung oil, tung oil mixed with mineral spirit and now use Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil which I like a lot better than the other two. I also tried Formby's Tung Oil finish and didn't really like it. It seemed more brittle and crystalline. I want a penetrating type with oil, like an oil varnish to protect my natural edge bowls. One criteria is a faster build than what I'm getting. Some bowls like pine and birch may take up to about 7-10 coats. Most bowls including apple, cherry and maple take at least 4 coats. One member of my local club suggested TruOil and I'm leaning toward that based on good comments in the archives. Any other suggestions? I'll be ordering the Russell CD's when he intros the new one, but I need to get a gallon soon. Thanks, Derek |
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#12
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What should I use for finishing bowls?
Hello Derek,
One of the easiest ways to make oil finishes build faster is to seal the wood first, then apply your chosen oil finish. I prefer using thin Lacquer as a primary sealer... For many of the timbers you mentioned, you will see less colour change in the timber if you seal first, the apply the oil. The thin Lacquer will seal the surface fibres, preventing the subsequent coats of oil from darkening the wood. In addition, the lacquer will allow any oil to build faster, thus saving on material and application costs. If you prefer not to use a sealer, one of the fastest building oils out there is Liberon Finishing Oil. It is pricy (@ $30.00 per quart), but will build a nice coat much faster than many oils. The cured film is easily buffed and produces a subtle, provocative, sensual feeling when you run your hands over the buffed surface. The cured film also retains a better elasticity than many oils. This can be easily tested by performing a "Thin Film Polymerisation Test" on a glass sheet. If it's taking you 7-10 coats with your current oil, the Liberon should give the same amount of build in 3-4 coats, unsealed and 2-3 if sealed. This is an estimate though, as I do not know how you are defining an appropriate build level - visual, tactile, gloss, degree of depth etc. One drawback to using the Liberon FO... It is a medium to darkish amber colour. On light timbers like Pine and Birch, it will cause the surface colour to yellow and darken. This can be eliminated by applying the sealer coat and is what I would recommend. I have been sealing oil based finishes for years and rarely ever apply them anymore without a sealer coat laid on first. This not only cuts your finishing time down, it also saves a boat load of money on expensive oils. In addition, the sealer will virtually eliminate the colour change imparted by amber coloured oils on light hued timbers. If you do not care for Lacquer, you can achieve the same result with a Shellac based primary sealer. Thin Super Blonde, wax free Shellac would be an excellent choice to consider. You may also want to consider a water based oil finish. There are only a few out there that I will use at the current state of the development of these oils. If you would like more info on the water based oils, let me know. The water based oils carry their own unique set of preparation challenges, but offer some important benefits for your extra effort. Take care and all the best to you and yours! P.S. I will let you know when the CD/DVD. Volume 2 is ready to ship and will be happy to offer a combo price with Volume #1. -- Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry... Steven D. Russell Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio The Woodlands, Texas Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning Industries ³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #1 CD ROM * Available for Shipment ³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #2 CD ROM/DVD Video * Available Soon On 8/6/04 4:25 PM, in article , "Derek Hartzell" wrote: I want a good finish for my natural edge bowls. I've used tung oil, tung oil mixed with mineral spirit and now use Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil which I like a lot better than the other two. I also tried Formby's Tung Oil finish and didn't really like it. It seemed more brittle and crystalline. I want a penetrating type with oil, like an oil varnish to protect my natural edge bowls. One criteria is a faster build than what I'm getting. Some bowls like pine and birch may take up to about 7-10 coats. Most bowls including apple, cherry and maple take at least 4 coats. One member of my local club suggested TruOil and I'm leaning toward that based on good comments in the archives. Any other suggestions? I'll be ordering the Russell CD's when he intros the new one, but I need to get a gallon soon. Thanks, Derek |
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#13
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What should I use for finishing bowls?
"Steven D. Russell" wrote in message One of the easiest ways to make oil finishes build faster is to seal the wood first, then apply your chosen oil finish. I prefer using thin Lacquer as a primary sealer... After sealing with lacquer, is it necessary to sand again before applying the oil. Frankly it comes as a surprise that oil can be applied over lacquer. I'd never have guessed. The rest of your post is full of valuable info as well, Steven. Thanks. And I definitely would like your two media discs. Do you have a website. (sorry, I'm fairly new around here) Max |
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#14
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What should I use for finishing bowls?
Hello Max,
The sealer coat of Lacquer is very thin, however, I still rub it down with webrax (synthetic wire wool) before applying oil to the surface. This helps even everything out before beginning the application of the chosen oil finish. You could also use your final grit of abrasive as well, I just prefer the webrax, as it is available with fabric backing and I can power buff the outside if necessary on larger pieces using my flex-shaft tool, or the pneumatic VS drill. You could also use wire wool to prep the surface before applying the oil, but be careful as the steel wire wool may leave a residue, which may be visible in the pores upon close inspection. In addition, if your oil is water based, the steel residue will rust... :-o If you prefer wire wool, consider bronze wire wool (no rusting). Additional note: The sealer coat of Lacquer can be diluted 50/50 with Lacquer thinner and for best results, should be strained before application with an oil base safe paint strainer. This is overkill for some, but that's the best way to do it, IMHO. I do not have a website up and running, but hope to by year end. If you're interested in my educational CD/DVD's, please send me an email and I will place you on the interested list. When Volume #2 is ready to ship in a few weeks, I will send you a notice to let you know the details. Thanks and if you have any questions, or if I can help you in any way, please do not hesitate to contact me. Take care and all the best to you and yours! -- Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry... Steven D. Russell Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio The Woodlands, Texas Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning Industries ³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #1 CD ROM * Available for Shipment ³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #2 CD ROM/DVD Video * Available Soon On 8/8/04 11:33 AM, in article . net, "Maxprop" wrote: "Steven D. Russell" wrote in message One of the easiest ways to make oil finishes build faster is to seal the wood first, then apply your chosen oil finish. I prefer using thin Lacquer as a primary sealer... After sealing with lacquer, is it necessary to sand again before applying the oil. Frankly it comes as a surprise that oil can be applied over lacquer. I'd never have guessed. The rest of your post is full of valuable info as well, Steven. Thanks. And I definitely would like your two media discs. Do you have a website. (sorry, I'm fairly new around here) Max |
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#15
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What should I use for finishing bowls?
"Steven D. Russell" wrote in message If you prefer wire wool, consider bronze wire wool (no rusting). Bronze wool is a staple for working on boats. That's all I have. But I, like you, have developed a preference for synthetics. Max |
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#16
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What should I use for finishing bowls?
Why reinvent the wheel - just get some WaterLox and have an easy to use and
beautiful finsih that is food safe and durable without the headaches of mixing your own - this stuff is the best! Ray |
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#17
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What should I use for finishing bowls?
On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 10:45:50 -0500, "Ray Sandusky"
wrote: Why reinvent the wheel - just get some WaterLox and have an easy to use and beautiful finsih that is food safe and durable without the headaches of mixing your own - this stuff is the best! Ditto...I "discovered" Waterlox about a year ago...thanks to this group, and absolutely love it. -- Chuck *#:^) chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply. September 11, 2001 - Never Forget -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
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#18
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What should I use for finishing bowls? (A silly finish)
A gestalt happened while dozing during tonite's boring football game. A
universal unified homemade finish I guarantee will finish your bowls. Mix equal parts, boil and let rest 1 year: dose of mineral oil little dab of brylcreme harem of virgin olive oil quart of motor oil soup'con of turtle oil shell of peanut oil imprint of sealing wax smear of vaseline Q-tip of ear wax kernel of walnut oil flitch of teak oil buff of shoe wax hive of bee's wax patty of butter tub of lard dram of essential oils one from column B of sesame oil scratch of T-tree oil blow of whale oil cup of grease can of bearing oil slick of brillianteen ouch of sandy K-Y jelly bouquet of safflower oil boil of linseed oil. garden of vegetable oil film of tung oil sniff of lemon oil spread of oleomargarine boll of cottonseed oil implant of silicone unction of snake oil (this is enough for a good finish. Besides the game is getting interesting and the beer is getting cold) Keep refrigerated. shake well before using. Do not use while intoxicated. Questions or to report any untoward reactions: 1-800- /+-)(*&^%$#@! 4am tuesdays in Feb. of leap years. Please hold, your call is important to us. Arch Fortiter, http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
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#19
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What should I use for finishing bowls?
I chose Daly's Sea-Fin Teak Oil based on Russ Fairfield's recommendation on
http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/finish7.shtml He prefers it to Waterlox. Plus it is available by the gallon in my lumberyard. Maybe the sanding sealer would be the important change from my method currently, to allow faster build, especially on porous woods. Derek "Ray Sandusky" wrote in message ... Why reinvent the wheel - just get some WaterLox and have an easy to use and beautiful finsih that is food safe and durable without the headaches of mixing your own - this stuff is the best! Ray |
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