WHY HAVE I GOT POWER SHOWING ON SOME OF THE EARTH CONNECTIONS TO
SOCKETS AND THE FRIDGE IS SLIGHTLY LIVE TOO IE. THE BARE SCREWS, I HAVE
HAD A NEW FUSE BOARD FITTED WITH MCB's WHY DONT THEY TRIP OUT? I HAVE
JUST MOVED IN SO THIS COULD BE AN OLD PROB, AS FAR AS POS I HAVE
CHECKED FOR SCREWS OR NAILS IN CABLES.
aNY IDEAS?
SMUDGEER

WHY HAVE I GOT POWER SHOWING ON SOME OF THE EARTH CONNECTIONS TO
SOCKETS AND THE FRIDGE IS SLIGHTLY LIVE TOO IE. THE BARE SCREWS, I HAVE
HAD A NEW FUSE BOARD FITTED WITH MCB's WHY DONT THEY TRIP OUT? I HAVE
JUST MOVED IN SO THIS COULD BE AN OLD PROB, AS FAR AS POS I HAVE
CHECKED FOR SCREWS OR NAILS IN CABLES.

IT'S RUDE TO SHOUT.

FIND THE KEY MARKED "CAPS LOCK" AND PRESS IT.

CHRISTIAN.

P.S. THROW YOUR NEON SCREWDRIVER AWAY. NOW. THEY'RE PATHETIC USELESS DEVICES
THAT HAVE NO VALUE WHATSOEVER FOR ANYTHING.

P.S. THROW YOUR NEON SCREWDRIVER AWAY. NOW. THEY'RE PATHETIC USELESS
DEVICES
THAT HAVE NO VALUE WHATSOEVER FOR ANYTHING.

Oh yes, and get an electrician in to do a "periodic inspection report". This
will include a test of the earth loop impedence and earth continuity and
won't cost the earth. (no pun intended).

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:
WHY HAVE I GOT POWER SHOWING ON SOME OF THE EARTH CONNECTIONS TO
SOCKETS AND THE FRIDGE IS SLIGHTLY LIVE TOO IE. THE BARE SCREWS, I
HAVE
HAD A NEW FUSE BOARD FITTED WITH MCB's WHY DONT THEY TRIP OUT? I
HAVE
JUST MOVED IN SO THIS COULD BE AN OLD PROB, AS FAR AS POS I HAVE
CHECKED FOR SCREWS OR NAILS IN CABLES.

IT'S RUDE TO SHOUT.

FIND THE KEY MARKED "CAPS LOCK" AND PRESS IT.

CHRISTIAN.

P.S. THROW YOUR NEON SCREWDRIVER AWAY. NOW. THEY'RE PATHETIC USELESS
DEVICES
THAT HAVE NO VALUE WHATSOEVER FOR ANYTHING.

Dun that whats next THEN!!!
Smudger

thanx Christian
wil have to.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
t...
P.S. THROW YOUR NEON SCREWDRIVER AWAY. NOW. THEY'RE PATHETIC USELESS
DEVICES
THAT HAVE NO VALUE WHATSOEVER FOR ANYTHING.

Oh yes, and get an electrician in to do a "periodic inspection report".
This
will include a test of the earth loop impedence and earth continuity and
won't cost the earth. (no pun intended).

Will that comply to Part P? Part P will kill him by electrocution. He has
to do it all himself, even though he doesn't know how to, and no one ever
will be electrocuted.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

In article .com,
smudger writes

Christian McArdle wrote:
WHY HAVE I GOT POWER SHOWING ON SOME OF THE EARTH CONNECTIONS TO
SOCKETS AND THE FRIDGE IS SLIGHTLY LIVE TOO IE. THE BARE SCREWS, I
HAVE
HAD A NEW FUSE BOARD FITTED WITH MCB's WHY DONT THEY TRIP OUT? I
HAVE
JUST MOVED IN SO THIS COULD BE AN OLD PROB, AS FAR AS POS I HAVE
CHECKED FOR SCREWS OR NAILS IN CABLES.

IT'S RUDE TO SHOUT.

FIND THE KEY MARKED "CAPS LOCK" AND PRESS IT.

CHRISTIAN.

P.S. THROW YOUR NEON SCREWDRIVER AWAY. NOW. THEY'RE PATHETIC USELESS
DEVICES
THAT HAVE NO VALUE WHATSOEVER FOR ANYTHING.

Dun that whats next THEN!!!
Smudger


Date anyone;?.....
--
Tony Sayer

smudger wrote:

WHY HAVE I GOT POWER SHOWING ON SOME OF THE EARTH CONNECTIONS TO
SOCKETS AND THE FRIDGE IS SLIGHTLY LIVE TOO IE. THE BARE SCREWS, I HAVE

Firstly, how do you know you have "power" here? What are you measuring
relative to?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"tony sayer" wrote in message
..
..
Date anyone;?.....

It's very kind of you to ask, but I am a happily married man ;-)

John

Dear Jon,
I used neon tester, also can feel power through bare screws on fridge,
also shows on socket fixing screws with neon tester

I used neon tester, also can feel power through bare screws on fridge,
also shows on socket fixing screws with neon tester

Being able to feel a tingle yourself is far more of an indication that there
may be a problem than a useless neon tester.

Do you know what type of earthing system you have?

Do you have an earth rod?

In any case, if you don't have much of a clue yourself, I'd get the
electrician in PDQ. Make sure he knows you have an issue with the earthing
and that he/she should specifically test the local to installation earth
potential.

Christian.

smudger wrote:

I used neon tester, also can feel power through bare screws on fridge,
also shows on socket fixing screws with neon tester

Ah ok... as the others said, the neon beastie will not tell you much
other than you and the screw are at a different potential. But you knew
that from the tingle ;-)

Knowing what earthing you have is important here. It may be the whole
house is not well earthed (if you have a local earth rod rather than a
earth supplied by your electric company, then this may be the case). In
this case you may not actually have a problem, and it could be all you
are seeing capacitive coupling inducing a voltage on to the (partial)
earth. So long as you have RCDs in the right places this would be
nothing to worry about.

However you may have a fault. If you house earth is a good low impedance
one, then you would not expect to sense voltage on the earth as you have
done. This could indicate a faulty earth to the sockets in question. The
source of the voltage could still be capacitive coupling (i.e. not
dangerous in itself), but you are being made aware of it due to a fault.

More seriously the source of the voltage could be a more direct
connection to live. If this is the case then this is far more serious.

If you can't identify the earthing arrangement, or don't feel up to
working through methodically with some test gear, then I suggest this
would be the time to call for help. It may be you have nothing to worry
about, or it may be you have discovered a potentially life threatening
fault.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 1 Apr 2005 01:43:24 -0800, "smudger" wrote:

WHY HAVE I GOT POWER SHOWING ON SOME OF THE EARTH CONNECTIONS TO
SOCKETS AND THE FRIDGE IS SLIGHTLY LIVE TOO IE. THE BARE SCREWS, I HAVE
HAD A NEW FUSE BOARD FITTED WITH MCB's WHY DONT THEY TRIP OUT? I HAVE
JUST MOVED IN SO THIS COULD BE AN OLD PROB, AS FAR AS POS I HAVE
CHECKED FOR SCREWS OR NAILS IN CABLES.
aNY IDEAS?
SMUDGEER

Have you checked for any puddles of electric on the carpets/flooring
beneath wall sockets?

John Rumm wrote:
smudger wrote:

I used neon tester, also can feel power through bare screws on
fridge,
also shows on socket fixing screws with neon tester

Ah ok... as the others said, the neon beastie will not tell you much
other than you and the screw are at a different potential. But you
knew
that from the tingle ;-)

It takes something like 80v to light a neon. Whether the liveness is
coming from the screws or the floor the OP is standing on, either way
theres a problem. Although neon screwdrivers have their problems, this
would not be happening if all was well.

At best the OP has a few bits that ought to be earthed but arent, and
are passing feelable leakage. At worst the whole system may be a real
danger. I wouldnt use the electric shower until its sorted!


NT

"tarquinlinbin" wrote in message
...
On 1 Apr 2005 01:43:24 -0800, "smudger"
wrote:

WHY HAVE I snip

Have you checked for any puddles of electric on the carpets/flooring
beneath wall sockets?


My dear old (and departed) Nan [1] thought for years that you needed
to keep even a blown light bulb in the holder or a plug in an
un-switched socket to stop the electricity from flowing out...

[1] Born 1901, gas lighting was the norm when she was a child.

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 17:16:55 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:


"tarquinlinbin" wrote in message
.. .
On 1 Apr 2005 01:43:24 -0800, "smudger"
wrote:

WHY HAVE I snip

Have you checked for any puddles of electric on the carpets/flooring
beneath wall sockets?


My dear old (and departed) Nan [1] thought for years that you needed
to keep even a blown light bulb in the holder or a plug in an
un-switched socket to stop the electricity from flowing out...

[1] Born 1901, gas lighting was the norm when she was a child.

Indeed and a lot of people still think there is gas flowing in central
heating radiators you know..! Its true and its difficult to convince
them otherwise.

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 17:28:49 UTC, tarquinlinbin
wrote:

Indeed and a lot of people still think there is gas flowing in central
heating radiators you know..! Its true and its difficult to convince
them otherwise.

Undo the end a bit...
--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

In message , tarquinlinbin
writes
On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 17:16:55 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:


"tarquinlinbin" wrote in message
. ..
On 1 Apr 2005 01:43:24 -0800, "smudger"
wrote:

WHY HAVE I snip

Have you checked for any puddles of electric on the carpets/flooring
beneath wall sockets?


My dear old (and departed) Nan [1] thought for years that you needed
to keep even a blown light bulb in the holder or a plug in an
un-switched socket to stop the electricity from flowing out...

[1] Born 1901, gas lighting was the norm when she was a child.

Indeed and a lot of people still think there is gas flowing in central
heating radiators you know..! Its true

Of course it's true, how else would they get hot

--
geoff

raden wrote:
Indeed and a lot of people still think there is gas flowing in central
heating radiators you know..! Its true
Of course it's true, how else would they get hot

And you can prove it by opening the bleed valve and setting light to the
gas!

Owain

In message , Owain
writes
raden wrote:
Indeed and a lot of people still think there is gas flowing in central
heating radiators you know..! Its true
Of course it's true, how else would they get hot

And you can prove it by opening the bleed valve and setting light to
the gas!

You can't just go opening it,

there's gas inside

You can't interfere with gas carrying parts

--
geoff

why is it some of the earth connections are live on some of the sockets
and not all of them, as far as i can tell all sockets are on one fuse.
On the fuse board is the notice saying THIS IS PROTECTETED BY MULTIPLE
EARTHING SYSTEM, ANY HELP?
SMUDGER

YES I KEEP CLEANING THEM UP BUT THEY STILL COME BAK. lol

smudger wrote:
why is it some of the earth connections are live on some of the
sockets
and not all of them, as far as i can tell all sockets are on one
fuse.
On the fuse board is the notice saying THIS IS PROTECTETED BY
MULTIPLE
EARTHING SYSTEM, ANY HELP?
SMUDGER

Yep, get someone in to fix it. That shows us you dont have anything
like the necesasry knowledge to diy, and this isnt something you can
leave for a month.

NT

"John" wrote in message
...
"tony sayer" wrote in message
..
.
Date anyone;?.....

It's very kind of you to ask, but I am a happily married man ;-)

Lucky devil!(:-(

--
alan

reply to alan(dot)holmes27(at)virgin(dot)net


John

raden wrote:

You can't interfere with gas carrying parts

Quite right; you have to be a Corgi to let the hydrogen out.

smudger wrote:

why is it some of the earth connections are live on some of the sockets
and not all of them, as far as i can tell all sockets are on one fuse.

All the sockets would in theory be connected to a common earth however
irrespective of which circuit they get power from. So that ought to be a
tell tail sign that there is a fault.


On the fuse board is the notice saying THIS IS PROTECTETED BY MULTIPLE
EARTHING SYSTEM, ANY HELP?

Yes it does (have a look at PME in the FAQ). Chances are that the earth
connection is provided by your supplier, and will be a "good earth".
Hence it should not be possible to get it to sit at the 10s of volts
necessary to illuminate your neon.

This would suggest that the earth on the sockets in question is either
not connected at all, or, there is a poor connection somewhere. This has
potential to be of immediate danger - although it may be mitigated a
little if you have a RCD coving the circuits in question.

If you want to investigate this yourself, a good first test would be to
check continuity between your main earthing terminal (should be near the
CU), and the earth pin of the socket in question. You can do this with
an ordinary multimeter in the first instance (you may need a long wire
to be able to extend on of your probe leads!).

*Turn the power off first*

You should see a resistance between main earth terminal and socket earth
of something approaching zero ohms (certainly under 5 ohms). Assuming
that you see a higher resistance (or even open circuit) then it is a
case of checking the earth for the circuit is actually connected in the
CU (visual inspection), and then if it is, testing each socket in turn
on the circuit to see if you can identify where the break (or breaks)
in the circuit are (a circuit wired as a "ring" ought to have *two*
paths to earth from each socket)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:

Yep, get someone in to fix it.

That would probably be wise in this case...

That shows us you dont have anything
like the necesasry knowledge to diy, and this isnt something you can
leave for a month.

I would hope getting then necessary knowledge to fix this particular
problem however would not take a month! ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
If you want to investigate this yourself, a good first test would be to
check continuity between your main earthing terminal (should be near the
CU), and the earth pin of the socket in question. You can do this with
an ordinary multimeter in the first instance (you may need a long wire
to be able to extend on of your probe leads!).

*Turn the power off first*

I'd think a better way - since extending the test leads makes a nonsense
of any accurate resistance reading - would be to set it to 250 volts AC
and measure the voltage. Even with a high impedance DVM, anything over a
couple of volts indicates a fault.

--
Is the hardness of the butter proportional to the softness of the bread?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'd think a better way - since extending the test leads makes a nonsense
of any accurate resistance reading - would be to set it to 250 volts AC

It is unlikey to make that much difference given we are looking for a
go/nogo indication here. (Longer lead lengths can be
calibrated/subtracted out anyway).

and measure the voltage. Even with a high impedance DVM, anything over a
couple of volts indicates a fault.

Between what and what though?

(I was trying to avoid too many tests with power on!)

The best test would be with an earth loop impedance tester, but I guess
the OP does not have one of those.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
and measure the voltage. Even with a high impedance DVM, anything over
a couple of volts indicates a fault.

Between what and what though?

Between a true earth and the 'faulty' socket? A start would be between the
main earth and the socket. Of course this doesn't prove the main earth.
You'd need an earth loop impedance tester for that.

However, the far more likely fault is in the wiring, rather than earth.

--
*Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

John Rumm wrote:
wrote:

Yep, get someone in to fix it.

That would probably be wise in this case...

That shows us you dont have anything
like the necesasry knowledge to diy, and this isnt something you
can
leave for a month.

I would hope getting then necessary knowledge to fix this particular
problem however would not take a month! ;-)

Youre optimistic

If both power sockets and light switches lack earth, I think theres
probably something more going on than a 2.5mm wire out.


NT

On 2 Apr 2005 02:42:57 -0800, wrote:

That shows us you dont have anything
like the necesasry knowledge to diy,

Someone who posts "ELECTRIC LEAK" in uppercase on 1st April is either
a C.InstEE having a laugh or a candidate for Darwin anyway.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 2 Apr 2005 02:42:57 -0800, wrote:

That shows us you dont have anything
like the necesasry knowledge to diy,

Someone who posts "ELECTRIC LEAK" in uppercase on 1st April is
either
a C.InstEE having a laugh or a candidate for Darwin anyway.

Or a Welshman with a new invention perhaps ?

AWEM