Exiting times...I am looking to purchase my first ever power tool!

I am thinking of replacing all the doors on my kitchen units. This will
mean drilling and fitting a lot of door handles (the exisiting units
open using an edge flange).

Can anyone recommend an el cheapo mains-powered drill from one of the
sheds. Suitable for light home DIY use, just wood drilling and the
occasional wall plug into breezeblock.

Thanks
Bruce

wrote in message
oups.com...
Exiting times...I am looking to purchase my first ever power tool!
I am thinking of replacing all the doors on my kitchen units. This will
mean drilling and fitting a lot of door handles (the exisiting units
open using an edge flange).
Can anyone recommend an el cheapo mains-powered drill from one of the
sheds. Suitable for light home DIY use, just wood drilling and the
occasional wall plug into breezeblock.
Thanks
Bruce

If this will be your first use of power tools, DO Practice on some scrap
material first - they are different to that old Stanley hand drill!

--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

Can anyone recommend an el cheapo mains-powered drill from one of the
sheds. Suitable for light home DIY use, just wood drilling and the
occasional wall plug into breezeblock.

Any non-SDS mains hammer power drill will suffice for those tasks.

Additional features you may find useful for other tasks:
1. Reverse
2. Twin speed (gears)
3. Variable speed (touch sensitive control)
4. Torque control
5. Rotor brake (stops instantly you let go of trigger)

Christian.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Exiting times...I am looking to purchase my first ever power tool!

I am thinking of replacing all the doors on my kitchen units. This will
mean drilling and fitting a lot of door handles (the exisiting units
open using an edge flange).

Can anyone recommend an el cheapo mains-powered drill from one of the
sheds. Suitable for light home DIY use, just wood drilling and the
occasional wall plug into breezeblock.

Wickes sell a 700w variable speed hammer drill for around £16 the last time
I looked. The variable speed means you can use it for driving screws, with
a bit of practice. Just the job. Most of the sheds sell plastic cases of
drills and drivers for around £10-15



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"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
et...
Can anyone recommend an el cheapo mains-powered drill from one of the
sheds. Suitable for light home DIY use, just wood drilling and the
occasional wall plug into breezeblock.

Any non-SDS mains hammer power drill will suffice for those tasks.

Additional features you may find useful for other tasks:
1. Reverse
2. Twin speed (gears)
3. Variable speed (touch sensitive control)
4. Torque control
5. Rotor brake (stops instantly you let go of trigger)

Christian.

Few mains drills have torque control. One Bosch does and it is not cheap.
Better to buy a cheap 700w mains drill and a cheap drill/driver if torque is
needed. A cheapo mains drill with a variable speed is fine for driving.
Best pulse the trigger with your finger so as not to spin too much and ruin
the crew head.


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Wickes sell a 700w variable speed hammer drill for around =A316 the
last time
I looked. The variable speed means you can use it for driving
screws, with
a bit of practice. Just the job. Most of the sheds sell plastic
cases of
drills and drivers for around =A310-15


That sounds the basic model I need. I'll have a look round the sheds
for 700W mains hammer drills.

Trouble is there are so many types of power tool nowadays ... I see you
can even buy a little hand "mouse" sander. The sanding block +
sandpaper is now redundant!

Soon we'll have robots to do all our DIY.

Bruce

wrote:
Wickes sell a 700w variable speed hammer drill for around £16 the

last time

I looked. The variable speed means you can use it for driving

screws, with

a bit of practice. Just the job. Most of the sheds sell plastic

cases of

drills and drivers for around £10-15



That sounds the basic model I need. I'll have a look round the sheds
for 700W mains hammer drills.

Trouble is there are so many types of power tool nowadays ... I see you
can even buy a little hand "mouse" sander. The sanding block +
sandpaper is now redundant!

Soon we'll have robots to do all our DIY.

Bruce


For the light use that you will be putting it to I would say a cheap
cordless would be better suited to your needs.

Mains powered tools are a god send if you are doing some heavy duty
DIYing (eg drilling into brick) but you can't beat a cordless for its
"just pick up and use" ability.

Even a cheap cordless will drill 30+ small holes* through 10mm sheets of
wood on a single charge. As for drilling into breeze block you don't
need hammer action for that as it's so soft (although most drills now
come with hammer action anyway). I wouldn't worry to much about features
at this point. Once you are hitting the limits of your first drill you
will know what features you need.

* Even my clapped out old cordless would do that. I image a new one
would drill a darn sight more.

Graham

Mains powered tools are a god send if you are doing some heavy duty DIYing
(eg drilling into brick) but you can't beat a cordless for its "just pick
up and use" ability.

Even a cheap cordless will drill 30+ small holes* through 10mm sheets of
wood on a single charge. As for drilling into breeze block you don't need
hammer action for that as it's so soft

I think a 700W mains drill will be so heavy, it would actually be easier to
use a brace and bit just for chipboard. Cordless sounds a lot better.

john

In article .com,
writes

Wickes sell a 700w variable speed hammer drill for around £16 the
last time
I looked. The variable speed means you can use it for driving
screws, with
a bit of practice. Just the job. Most of the sheds sell plastic
cases of
drills and drivers for around £10-15


That sounds the basic model I need. I'll have a look round the sheds
for 700W mains hammer drills.

Trouble is there are so many types of power tool nowadays ... I see you
can even buy a little hand "mouse" sander. The sanding block +
sandpaper is now redundant!

Soon we'll have robots to do all our DIY.

Bruce

Avoid the PPro cheap ones from B&Q their absolute crap squared.
If I were you I'd fork out a bit more and get a better one such as a
Bosch well worth the extra. I've decided not to by cheap power tools
again after some bad experiences, waste of money and resources....
--
Tony Sayer

"John" wrote in message
...


Mains powered tools are a god send if you are doing some heavy duty
DIYing
(eg drilling into brick) but you can't beat a cordless for its "just
pick
up and use" ability.

Even a cheap cordless will drill 30+ small holes* through 10mm sheets of
wood on a single charge. As for drilling into breeze block you don't
need
hammer action for that as it's so soft

I think a 700W mains drill will be so heavy, it would actually be easier
to
use a brace and bit just for chipboard. Cordless sounds a lot better.

The current 700w drills and small and not heavy. They will outlast any
battery drill, far more power and the batteries don't eventually go duff.
For occasional stuff around the house it is the only drill to buy. V cheap
and does the job.




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doozer wrote:

I admit that some of the PPPro tools don't seem to be very well built
and they are certainly not in the same league as Matika and De Walt, for
example, but you get what you pay for. There is little point in paying
£100 (or more) buying a top of the range professional drill if all you
are ever going to do is hang pictures and attach door handles. There is

Quite agree. I think your example of the sander is also worth noting
because it does highlight that with any "brand" of tool, there is going
to be good and not so good models. If you always shop on low price as a
primary purchasing criteria, then you need to be prepared to invest more
time finding the better ones.

In this case I think the OP would be well served with a mid range
cordless drill driver.

unfortunately, I believe, a lot of snob value placed in certain brand
names.

I often find its the folks who buy a whole shed full of tools but then
never use them, to be the worst offenders! Many of the top end tool
makers do not even figure on some tool junkies radar, since they are not
so readily available in the DIY shops. If you are going to brag about
whatever you just bought there is little point in getting a festool,
trend, metabo etc since most folks will just say "huh?"



--
Cheers,

John.

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wrote:

Isn't the weight of a cordless + battery nearly equal to weight of
corded drill, anyway?

A combi cordless can easily be as heavy, although they are often much
better balanced for single handed use, the coredless drill/driver
versions tend to be smaller and lighter.

--
Cheers,

John.

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tony sayer wrote:
snip


Avoid the PPro cheap ones from B&Q their absolute crap squared.
If I were you I'd fork out a bit more and get a better one such as a
Bosch well worth the extra. I've decided not to by cheap power tools
again after some bad experiences, waste of money and resources....

I admit that some of the PPPro tools don't seem to be very well built
and they are certainly not in the same league as Matika and De Walt, for
example, but you get what you pay for. There is little point in paying
£100 (or more) buying a top of the range professional drill if all you
are ever going to do is hang pictures and attach door handles. There is
unfortunately, I believe, a lot of snob value placed in certain brand names.

FWIW I own a PPPro orbital sander. It was about half the price of the
average DIY brand names (Bosch, B+D etc) and a third or less the cost of
the professional names. As it was so cheap I bought it expecting it to
only last for the duration of the one (quite large) job I needed it for
so I pushed it as hard as I could. Amazing it's still in tip top
condition and I suspect it will last for many years more.

Graham

wrote:

I don't need a screwdriving facility, really -- I just need to drill

Power screwdriving (if you have not done much in the past) is like many
things a skill that takes some learning. At first it will seem harder
and more cumbersome than using a manual screw driver. However once it
becomes second nature, you will never want to go back to the old way of
doing it.

Even the best mains drills tend to be poor at screw driving (unless they
are specialy designed for it like dry wall drivers). Often they are too
long, which makes the task of getting the bit in the screw one handed
difficult (having the main hand hold at the back of the drill does not
help either). The delivery of torque from an AC motor is never as smooth
as that from a DC motor with a good speed controller, and, as has been
mentioned, a torque limiter is usually missing.

holes in kitchen cabinet doors prior to fitting handles etc. Or in
breezeblock for hanging pictures and shelving. Or through tiles, maybe.

A mid range battery drill driver sounds like it would be better suited.
More than enough power for the job (even a 9V model will sink 2" 10
guage screws straight into softwood without a pilot hole). A 12V or
14.4V one will cope with most other jobs unless you want to turn things
like hole saws etc. (don't get too carried away with the numbers though,
a good quality 12V drill will perform as well or better than a nasty 18V
one).

--
Cheers,

John.

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wrote in message
oups.com...
Exiting times...I am looking to purchase my first ever power tool!

I am thinking of replacing all the doors on my kitchen units. This will
mean drilling and fitting a lot of door handles (the exisiting units
open using an edge flange).

Can anyone recommend an el cheapo mains-powered drill from one of the
sheds. Suitable for light home DIY use, just wood drilling and the
occasional wall plug into breezeblock.

Just got a Worx 710W corded drill from Homebase reduced to £14.99. Can't
fault it at the price, however for driving screws into kitchen cabinets
essential to have torque control, not normally available on corded drills.
Normal advice is to get a corded drill first but consider a cordless drill
driver. A good cheap cordless, 14.4V say, will do all your kitchen cabinet
work, less or no good into masonry. Suggest you go for two quick charge
batteries as this is the weakest part of any cheapo. I'm sure I have seen a
Bosch corded/cordless combo on offer in B&Q recently. Ideal for someone
purchasing their first power tools.

Jim A

Avoid the PPro cheap ones from B&Q their absolute crap squared.
If I were you I'd fork out a bit more and get a better one such as a
Bosch well worth the extra. I've decided not to by cheap power tools
again after some bad experiences, waste of money and resources....
--


I've just seen some PPro corded drill packages in B&Q. Including cheapo
tools such as hacksaw, saw, pliers, spirit level etc. Reduced from =A330
to =A320. A bargain, but the only problem is, the drills are quite heavy
(2.2kg), as an earlier poster noted.

They also have PPro cordless at =A330.

Isn't the weight of a cordless + battery nearly equal to weight of
corded drill, anyway?

Bruce

The Worx sounds similar to the B&Q PPro range.

I don't need a screwdriving facility, really -- I just need to drill
holes in kitchen cabinet doors prior to fitting handles etc. Or in
breezeblock for hanging pictures and shelving. Or through tiles, maybe.

Bruce

wrote:
The Worx sounds similar to the B&Q PPro range.

I don't need a screwdriving facility, really -- I just need to drill
holes in kitchen cabinet doors prior to fitting handles etc. Or in
breezeblock for hanging pictures and shelving. Or through tiles, maybe.

Bruce


Once you start putting in screws with a drill you will never want to go
back to putting them in by hand. If you have drill with torque control
(which I believe is the case for the vast majority of cordless drills)
it is so simple and quick you will wonder what a screwdriver is for.

Before you drill tiles for the first time make sure that you are
familiar with the variable speed control of your drill and get yourself
some proper tile drilling bits. Slow and steady is the key.

One drill I used a while ago had a small dial on the trigger which could
be used to limit the speed. I found that to be a useful feature but it
doesn't seem to be very common now.

Graham

wrote:
Avoid the PPro cheap ones from B&Q their absolute crap squared.
If I were you I'd fork out a bit more and get a better one such as a
Bosch well worth the extra. I've decided not to by cheap power tools
again after some bad experiences, waste of money and resources....
--



I've just seen some PPro corded drill packages in B&Q. Including cheapo
tools such as hacksaw, saw, pliers, spirit level etc. Reduced from £30
to £20. A bargain, but the only problem is, the drills are quite heavy
(2.2kg), as an earlier poster noted.

They also have PPro cordless at £30.

Isn't the weight of a cordless + battery nearly equal to weight of
corded drill, anyway?

Bruce


Personally I tend to avoid packs of tools as you can end up with a lot
of items you wont use and when you price up the parts (like for like)
there is often little difference to buying them separately. More
importantly, when you do come to buy a tool that would have been
included in the kit you have the choice to go for a better version if
you need / want to.

I wouldn't say that 2.2kg is very heavy for a drill. The cordless
drill/driver combos tend to be well balanced which has the effect of
making the tool appear lighter in the hand. You also don't tend to hold
the drill for that long so, unless there is a reason we don't know
about, I wouldn't use weight as a deciding factor.

rant
In my early DIY days, when I was poor, I bought an
extra-bargain-basement junior hacksaw (the type that is just a bent
metal bar). I used it till the teeth fell off the blade that came with
it. Being a little richer at that point I decided to upgrade and bought
one that had a comfy rubberised handle and that you could change the
blade on. Well I got it home and started working with it and noticed
that my cuts always seemed to be wonky. I tried tightening the blade. I
tried holding it differently nothing worked my cuts were always wonky.
Exasperated I took my life into my own hands and changed the blade on
the cheep junior hacksaw (yes you can change the blade if you really
struggle) and continued work. Turns out the slot that holds the blade
holder was very slightly twisted which was causing the blade to be ever
so slightly bent, hence the wonky cuts. I never did get round to taking
it back but I have always felt ripped off. I still use the cheap hacksaw
now. Thanks for listening. I feel much better for getting that off my chest.
/rant

A mid range battery drill driver sounds like it would be better
suited.
More than enough power for the job (even a 9V model will sink 2" 10
guage screws straight into softwood without a pilot hole). A 12V or
14.4V one will cope with most other jobs unless you want to turn
things
like hole saws etc. (don't get too carried away with the numbers
though,
a good quality 12V drill will perform as well or better than a nasty
18V
one).


Thanks, John. I'm starting to think of the possible jobs I may need a
drill/driver for sometime in the future...when I get round to it.

For the sake of argument, lets say I want to drill through a
breezeblock internal wall ( to spur off an electrical socket in an
adjacent room).
Would this job wreck a 12V cordless drill? I reckon I would need a
corded drill for such a job. Or, better still, get an electrician in!

Bruce

wrote:
Wickes sell a 700w variable speed hammer drill for around £16 the


Soon we'll have robots to do all our DIY.

Will they be Part P compliant ;-)

Dave

wrote:

Thanks, John. I'm starting to think of the possible jobs I may need a
drill/driver for sometime in the future...when I get round to it.

For the sake of argument, lets say I want to drill through a
breezeblock internal wall ( to spur off an electrical socket in an
adjacent room).
Would this job wreck a 12V cordless drill? I reckon I would need a
corded drill for such a job. Or, better still, get an electrician in!

Bruce

you could do that with anything, even a kitchen knife.

Mains has the advantages over battery:
much cheaper
much more power
much more speed
much longer tool life expectancy

But the downside is that for scrweing, they work, in fact they work
better, but are crude to handle, with poor speed control, no instant
stop and no torque control.

If I were buying just one tool, it would definitely be a mains drill
with speed control.

And dont buy B&D drill bits.

Its scarey to say this, but IMM got it about right, for the 3rd time in
his life.


NT

wrote:
Thanks, John. I'm starting to think of the possible jobs I may need a
drill/driver for sometime in the future...when I get round to it.

For the sake of argument, lets say I want to drill through a
breezeblock internal wall ( to spur off an electrical socket in an
adjacent room).
Would this job wreck a 12V cordless drill? I reckon I would need a
corded drill for such a job. Or, better still, get an electrician in!

Bruce


You could run a spur in with a 12v cordless without trouble and it
certainly shouldn't wreck the drill. I ran a 36 port home network in
with just such a beast [although I admit that I should have bought a
corded drill :-)]. I put holes though joists, breeze blocks and even
stuck a 12mm x 2' masonry bit in it to get down behind the skirting
board (it did struggle sometimes then though and wouldn't touch brick).
These tools are tougher than you think.

There is a world of difference between what you will be doing with your
drill and what a professional will do with a drill. A professional will
be using (and possibly abusing) their drill every day. You will maybe
use it a few times a year for quite light work.

Graham

"doozer" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Avoid the PPro cheap ones from B&Q

There is Performace Power (grey) and Performance Power Pro (blue). Two very
different ranges.


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wrote:

Thanks, John. I'm starting to think of the possible jobs I may need a
drill/driver for sometime in the future...when I get round to it.

For the sake of argument, lets say I want to drill through a
breezeblock internal wall ( to spur off an electrical socket in an
adjacent room).

Depends a bit on what you mean by breezeblock - that covers everything
from the soft insulating blocks and cinder blocks which you can drill
easily without hammer action (in fact you can drill with a srewdriver!),
to hard hollow concrete blocks where you will need hammer action. None
of them are that hard to drill - in the sense that a conventional hammer
drill (mains or battery) will hack it without needing a SDS drill.

If you want to chase out a channel in a wall and sink a backbox however
you need a SDS with chisel mode.

Would this job wreck a 12V cordless drill? I reckon I would need a
corded drill for such a job. Or, better still, get an electrician in!

A mid range 12V drill would handle it with no difficulty. A top end one
would do it 100 times on a single charge.

If you have doubts, then considder a mid range cordless drill backed up
by a shed special hammer for the odd occations you want more prolonged
drilling or hammer.

--
Cheers,

John.

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wrote:

Mains has the advantages over battery:
much cheaper

yup

much more power

Not always, a good 18V cordless will develop the same sort of power as a
small mains drill. Power however in many cases is a bit like oxygen, you
only need "enough" for the task.

much more speed

True of the smaller cordless drills, but decent cordless drills will
often run around 1500 rpm. A Mains SDS will normally do upto 1100, a
conventional gearbox mains drill will max out at 2500 - 3000. For most
materials 1500 is more than adequate. The exception is when hammer
drilling in which case the extra speed of the mains drill gets more
blows per min, which makes better use fo the (feeble) hammer action.

much longer tool life expectancy

Not convinced... the batteries will need replacing from time to time,
but the drill should last equally well.

But the downside is that for scrweing, they work, in fact they work
better, but are crude to handle, with poor speed control, no instant
stop and no torque control.

You seem to demolish the "work better" claim by explaining all the
reasons they are not so good for screwing.

If I were buying just one tool, it would definitely be a mains drill
with speed control.

Depends on what you are doing I suppose. If I were putting up shelves
then yes, if I were refitting a kitchen then I would rather have the
cordless.

And dont buy B&D drill bits.

agreed!

(or any 120 drill bits for only 10 quid offers you see)


--
Cheers,

John.

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wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:

Thanks, John. I'm starting to think of the possible jobs I may need a
drill/driver for sometime in the future...when I get round to it.

For the sake of argument, lets say I want to drill through a
breezeblock internal wall ( to spur off an electrical socket in an
adjacent room).
Would this job wreck a 12V cordless drill? I reckon I would need a
corded drill for such a job. Or, better still, get an electrician in!

Bruce

you could do that with anything, even a kitchen knife.

Mains has the advantages over battery:
much cheaper
much more power
much more speed
much longer tool life expectancy

But the downside is that for scrweing, they work, in fact they work
better, but are crude to handle, with poor speed control, no instant
stop and no torque control.

If I were buying just one tool, it would definitely be a mains drill
with speed control.

And dont buy B&D drill bits.

Its scarey to say this, but IMM got it about right, for the 3rd time in
his life.

It is plain you can't count. I get everything right all of the time.


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John Rumm wrote:
wrote:

Mains has the advantages over battery:
much cheaper

yup

much more power

Not always, a good 18V cordless will develop the same sort of power
as a
small mains drill.

Pound for pound the mains drill wins hands down
yes the biggest cordlesses can outperform the smallest mains
Usenet, the home of pedantry.


Power however in many cases is a bit like oxygen, you
only need "enough" for the task.

I think you need enough for every task youll ever do with it. Codlesses
are often inadequate, especially the cheaper ones.


much more speed

True of the smaller cordless drills, but decent cordless drills will
often run around 1500 rpm. A Mains SDS will normally do upto 1100, a
conventional gearbox mains drill will max out at 2500 - 3000. For
most
materials 1500 is more than adequate. The exception is when hammer
drilling in which case the extra speed of the mains drill gets more
blows per min, which makes better use fo the (feeble) hammer action.

so pound for pound much more speed.


much longer tool life expectancy

Not convinced... the batteries will need replacing from time to time,

but the drill should last equally well.

precisely, the batteries go. I've used too much rechargeable based kit
in the past to want to go back to it when not necessary.


But the downside is that for scrweing, they work, in fact they work
better, but are crude to handle, with poor speed control, no
instant
stop and no torque control.

You seem to demolish the "work better" claim by explaining all the
reasons they are not so good for screwing.

no, pointing out they do have downsides, and that all in all the cheap
mains drill is a much better tool than a cheap codless.


If I were buying just one tool, it would definitely be a mains
drill
with speed control.

Depends on what you are doing I suppose. If I were putting up shelves

then yes, if I were refitting a kitchen then I would rather have the
cordless.

And dont buy B&D drill bits.

agreed!

(or any 120 drill bits for only 10 quid offers you see)

I always thought of B&D kit as adequate, if not great, but buying a
megapack of their drill bits really lifted that illusion from my eyes.
A =A31 set of bits from teh cheapshop left them for dust. A bit that
cant even make a hole in soft pine is a joke.

Codlessness is something you pay extra for and compromise for: only go
codless if you specifically need codlessness.


NT

wrote in message
oups.com...

Codlessness is something you pay
extra for and compromise for: only go
codless if you specifically need codlessness.

I couldn't agree more. In fact mains drill/driver is what most people need
as they rarely use the drills. Only pro, or very serious DIYers need
cordless.


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Doctor Evil wrote:

Codlessness is something you pay
extra for and compromise for: only go
codless if you specifically need codlessness.


I couldn't agree more. In fact mains drill/driver is what most people need
as they rarely use the drills. Only pro, or very serious DIYers need
cordless.

So DIYers will never need to drive (and remove) screws in number then?



--
Cheers,

John.

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wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

wrote:


Mains has the advantages over battery:
much cheaper

yup


Pound for pound the mains drill wins hands down
yes the biggest cordlesses can outperform the smallest mains
Usenet, the home of pedantry.

Sorry had not realised you were going at this just from the bang for
buck angle. I was only saying that on a (reasonable) coredless lack of
power is not usually an issue.

I think you need enough for every task youll ever do with it. Codlesses
are often inadequate, especially the cheaper ones.

Agreed. I was not advocating he purchase the cheapest though.

In reality the sensible thing to do is buy both: a mid range cordless,
and a cheap mains drill.

so pound for pound much more speed.

But then so what? What does it do for you in most cases? Make
screwdriving harder, and increase the chances of burning out a drill bit
in steel. It makes naff all difference with wood. Hard masonry is the
only place it helps on a conventional hammer drill. But the OP was not
talking about drilling masonry big time. If he was I would suggest
skipping the conventional mains drill and go SDS instead.

precisely, the batteries go. I've used too much rechargeable based kit
in the past to want to go back to it when not necessary.

I can understand the feeling, there are times I have felt the same...
however I have found it depends greatly on the quality of the
rechargable kit.

A couple of examples:

Someone bought me a rechargable jigsaw from B&Q once. It is so lame that
I can't ever visualise a time where I would use it out of choice. Even a
10 quid shed special mains jigsaw would trounce it in every respect.

Someone also bought me a green Bosch mains drill - for a time it was my
only drill other than a 9V combi, they both got used in equal measure
since there were plenty of jobs the cordless was not up to, although for
screwdriving it was vastly superior. However I now almost never reach
for the Bosch in preference to my 18V Makita combi - there is nothing
that it does better.

(If the cordless will not hack hard masonry then its time for the SDS
anyway, since that is something the Bosch is useless at).

no, pointing out they do have downsides, and that all in all the cheap
mains drill is a much better tool than a cheap codless.

If you are limiting yourself to cheap then I quite agree. You can't do
rechargable cells of any useful quality "cheap".

I always thought of B&D kit as adequate, if not great, but buying a
megapack of their drill bits really lifted that illusion from my eyes.
A £1 set of bits from teh cheapshop left them for dust. A bit that
cant even make a hole in soft pine is a joke.

Perhaps when they said "wood drill bits" that is what they ment they
were actually made from!



--
Cheers,

John.

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"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:

Codlessness is something you pay
extra for and compromise for: only go
codless if you specifically need codlessness.


I couldn't agree more. In fact mains drill/driver is what most people
need
as they rarely use the drills. Only pro, or very serious DIYers need
cordless.

So DIYers will never need to drive (and remove) screws in number then?

Read again what I wrote.


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In article ,
"Doctor Evil" writes:

Wickes sell a 700w variable speed hammer drill for around £16 the last time
I looked. The variable speed means you can use it for driving screws, with
a bit of practice. Just the job. Most of the sheds sell plastic cases of

Cheap variable speed drills don't have the necessary torque or fine
control required for driving screws at low speed -- their output
power is very low at such speeds. However, the variable speed is
useful for starting a hole off slowly to ensure the bit doesn't move
before it starts biting into the surface. For this purpose, I found
the power controller in an older B&D drill much better than the one
in a newer Bosch -- the B&D can be started from almost zero, whereas
the Bosch has a nasty hysteresis which means the motor won't start
until you get the trigger to about 1/4 travel and you can then back
off to lower speed (a characteristic of a very cheap light dimmer
circuit).

You can get variable speed drills which deliver much nearer full
output power at low speeds and are good for screw driving, but you're
looking at a much higher price -- the power controller will include
servo feedback, thermal monitoring and power input control right up to
and including top speed operation, and is a lot more sophistcated than
the crude light dimmer type found in cheap drills.

drills and drivers for around £10-15

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Doctor Evil" writes:

Wickes sell a 700w variable speed hammer drill for around £16 the last
time
I looked. The variable speed means you can use it for driving screws,
with
a bit of practice. Just the job. Most of the sheds sell plastic cases
of

Cheap variable speed drills don't have the necessary torque or fine
control required for driving screws at low speed -- their output
power is very low at such speeds. However, the variable speed is
useful for starting a hole off slowly to ensure the bit doesn't move
before it starts biting into the surface. For this purpose, I found
the power controller in an older B&D drill much better than the one
in a newer Bosch -- the B&D can be started from almost zero, whereas
the Bosch has a nasty hysteresis which means the motor won't start
until you get the trigger to about 1/4 travel and you can then back
off to lower speed (a characteristic of a very cheap light dimmer
circuit).

You can get variable speed drills which deliver much nearer full
output power at low speeds and are good for screw driving, but you're
looking at a much higher price -- the power controller will include
servo feedback, thermal monitoring and power input control right up to
and including top speed operation, and is a lot more sophistcated than
the crude light dimmer type found in cheap drills.

Most of these cheap mains drills have a trigger stop to prevent too much
speed. I find that using this and pulsing the trigger with your finger does
the job. I little practice and most can get it.

If you are in an office which is being refurbished and there are about 10
guys with drill/drivers, you hear the constant pulsing of the triggers, zip,
zip, zip. It is a technique they nearly all use even with over expensive
pro battery tools. Most doesn't use the torque control leaving it on full
using their fingers to pulse. They know how much to pulse to get the screw
in; all by experience of using the tools on a day to day basis. Most DIYers
put the bit in the screw and pull the trigger full, and then can't
understand why the bit spun out of the screw and chewed it up.



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Doctor Evil wrote:

So DIYers will never need to drive (and remove) screws in number then?


Read again what I wrote.

If what you had wrote had made any sense in the first place then I would
not be posting for clarification. Since it did not hence the question.
Suggesting I "read again what I wrote" is "bits a waste of" Yoda.

A cheap mains drill (even with variable speed) is not a good tool for
screwdriving, ergo if that is something you want to do (and I am
confident that for many DIYers it is) your recommendation to buy a mains
drill in exclusion of any other, seems short sighted.

--
Cheers,

John.

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Most doesn't use the torque control leaving it on full using their fingers
to pulse.

I use the torque control when doing large numbers of easy screws, such as
screwing down a floor, or screwing plasterboard. Otherwise, it is easier to
just pulse, as you say.

I find the mains drill is good for driving overlarge screws into undersized
pilot holes, but has some serious disadvantages. The main one is that with
neither a rotor brake nor torque control, and with a large amount of
spinning mass, when the screw bottoms out, the drill really wants to
continue spinning, particularly if the drill was used overfast. This often
overtorques the screw, burying it into the wood/plasterboard, or chews up
the screw head.

Christian.

Doctor Evil wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Codlessness is something you pay
extra for and compromise for: only go
codless if you specifically need codlessness.

I couldn't agree more.

I'm scared.

NT

On 1 Mar 2005 01:07:24 -0800, wrote:

I am thinking of replacing all the doors on my kitchen units. This will
mean drilling and fitting a lot of door handles (the exisiting units
open using an edge flange).

Nothing to do with your question about power tools, but you'll find that
if you make a little jig to help, you can get all the handles in the
same position very easily.

This needs to be nothing more than a square of scrap wood with two
(marked with a pen) straight sides that you align with two sides of your
doors, and a hole in it.
--
On-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk

(Waterways World site of the month, April 2001)

Christian McArdle wrote:
Most doesn't use the torque control leaving it on full using their
fingers
to pulse.

I use the torque control when doing large numbers of easy screws,
such as
screwing down a floor, or screwing plasterboard. Otherwise, it is
easier to
just pulse, as you say.

I find the mains drill is good for driving overlarge screws into
undersized
pilot holes, but has some serious disadvantages. The main one is that
with
neither a rotor brake nor torque control, and with a large amount of
spinning mass, when the screw bottoms out, the drill really wants to
continue spinning, particularly if the drill was used overfast. This
often
overtorques the screw, burying it into the wood/plasterboard, or
chews up
the screw head.

Hmm, not sure I ever spin the drill so fast that it continues spinning
the screw into the subject !

I use 2 drills, cheapo hammer (with quick release chuck) for drilling,
but I always use my SDS drill for driving screws with an sds to hex bit
adaptor. It's a bit heavy, but the trigger control is much more
sensitive, letting you back off as the head nears full tightness. I've
rarely overtightened or chewed the head on anything, even on drywall.

Cheers,

Paul.

Hmm, not sure I ever spin the drill so fast that it continues spinning
the screw into the subject !

It probably depends on the drill. My mains one has so much rotor mass that
it will continue to turn after bottom out even at very low speeds. It has
very slow spin down too, so letting go of the trigger may still make 8 or 9
complete turns of the rotor even under the load of a wood screw at moderate
speed.

Christian.