I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own. I think it would
cost me a few hundred pounds to have a gas main laid on. After that,
I'd need to fork out another few hundred to install a combi boiler to
heat the DHW and the C/H radiators. I can imagine the total cost
amounting to way over £1000. I'm wondering if there are other avenues
I could consider for heating.

There's electricity of course but it's obviously expensive to run.
What other fuels could I use that would eliminate that expense of a
gas main installation?

What about (a) oil and (b)coal or coke? Obviously these are
potentially messier than gas, but what about the actual cost, both for
the initial installation and then the running costs? Has anyone used
these fuels for central heating and tapwater heating?

There seems to be a likelihood that gas will get more expensive in the
future too, which is another reason I'm keen to know about any viable
alternatives.

I remember when I was in Canada about 15 years ago, I noted that many
people used oil-fired warm-air central heating. But the boiler looked
like a large and expensive item.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice.

J

Jimmy wrote:

I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own.


What about (a) oil and (b)coal or coke? Obviously these are
potentially messier than gas, but what about the actual cost, both for
the initial installation and then the running costs? Has anyone used
these fuels for central heating and tapwater heating?


Oil will require an exterior storage tank. Will that be possible with your
flat?
Solid fuel will also require storage - do you have a suitable area?

Gas or electric may be the only practical solution.

Sheila

I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own. I think it would
cost me a few hundred pounds to have a gas main laid on.

And some.

After that, I'd need to fork out another few hundred to install a
combi boiler to heat the DHW and the C/H radiators.

And some.

What about (a) oil

A reasonable choice when gas is not available.

and (b)coal or coke?

Solid fuel is a pain in the arse. Last resort territory, really, except
for nice solid fuel fires when you want to relax, but not every day.

There seems to be a likelihood that gas will get more expensive in the
future too, which is another reason I'm keen to know about any viable
alternatives.

The alternatives will also rise in price.

I remember when I was in Canada about 15 years ago, I noted that many
people used oil-fired warm-air central heating. But the boiler looked
like a large and expensive item.

Warm air is available, but very expensive to retrofit to a house not
designed for it. Wet radiators are much easier to install and can run
off oil.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice.

Install gas if it is available. It will add to the value of your
property and is a lot less hassle than oil or solid fuel. If it isn't
possible, go with oil. It will still cost many thousands to install.

Christian.

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...

I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own. I think it would
cost me a few hundred pounds to have a gas main laid on. After that,
I'd need to fork out another few hundred to install a combi boiler to
heat the DHW and the C/H radiators. I can imagine the total cost
amounting to way over £1000. I'm wondering if there are other avenues
I could consider for heating.

There's electricity of course but it's obviously expensive to run.
What other fuels could I use that would eliminate that expense of a
gas main installation?

What about (a) oil and (b)coal or coke? Obviously these are
potentially messier than gas, but what about the actual cost, both for
the initial installation and then the running costs? Has anyone used
these fuels for central heating and tapwater heating?

There seems to be a likelihood that gas will get more expensive in the
future too, which is another reason I'm keen to know about any viable
alternatives.

I remember when I was in Canada about 15 years ago, I noted that many
people used oil-fired warm-air central heating. But the boiler looked
like a large and expensive item.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice.

If a gas main is available for a few hundred quid, then go for gas. £1000
is very cheap for a main and CH system in a flat, so expect x 2. If you
own the flat it will be a selling item and you will get the capital cost
back when you sell.

Forced air can be fitted but expesnive as ducting has to be fitted.
Probably best to go for rads.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:18:33 -0500, S Viemeister
wrote:

Jimmy wrote:

I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own.


What about (a) oil and (b)coal or coke? Obviously these are
potentially messier than gas, but what about the actual cost, both for
the initial installation and then the running costs? Has anyone used
these fuels for central heating and tapwater heating?


Oil will require an exterior storage tank. Will that be possible with your
flat?
Solid fuel will also require storage - do you have a suitable area?

Yes. There is room outside for a tank, provided it's not too massive.
How big does the oil tank need to be? Can it be positioned against the
building? Does it have to be within x feet of the road for filling
purposes?

Space for a coal bunker is also feasable. I have Victorian fireplaces
in two rooms that could be opened up to take a coke-burning boiler,
I'm guessing.

J

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...

I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own. I think it would
cost me a few hundred pounds to have a gas main laid on. After that,
I'd need to fork out another few hundred to install a combi boiler to
heat the DHW and the C/H radiators. I can imagine the total cost
amounting to way over £1000. I'm wondering if there are other avenues
I could consider for heating.

There's electricity of course but it's obviously expensive to run.
What other fuels could I use that would eliminate that expense of a
gas main installation?

What about (a) oil and (b)coal or coke?

Yes - both. Have also used LPG. Other obvious one missing is woodchip.

All are far more expensive than mains gas so if it really is a "few hundred"
to get it piped in then do it.

In article , Jimmy
writes

I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own. I think it would
cost me a few hundred pounds to have a gas main laid on. After that,
I'd need to fork out another few hundred to install a combi boiler to
heat the DHW and the C/H radiators. I can imagine the total cost
amounting to way over £1000. I'm wondering if there are other avenues
I could consider for heating.

There's electricity of course but it's obviously expensive to run.
What other fuels could I use that would eliminate that expense of a
gas main installation?

What about (a) oil and (b)coal or coke? Obviously these are
potentially messier than gas, but what about the actual cost, both for
the initial installation and then the running costs? Has anyone used
these fuels for central heating and tapwater heating?

There seems to be a likelihood that gas will get more expensive in the
future too, which is another reason I'm keen to know about any viable
alternatives.

I remember when I was in Canada about 15 years ago, I noted that many
people used oil-fired warm-air central heating. But the boiler looked
like a large and expensive item.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice.

J
Oil boiler to rads will be your best option, oil is cheap enough and the
installation costs will be very similar to gas but without the
connection cost, as other posters have said though 1K is too little 2-3
I would have thought

--
..

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:18:33 -0500, S Viemeister
wrote:

Jimmy wrote:

I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own.


What about (a) oil and (b)coal or coke? Obviously these are
potentially messier than gas, but what about the actual cost, both for
the initial installation and then the running costs? Has anyone used
these fuels for central heating and tapwater heating?


Oil will require an exterior storage tank. Will that be possible with
your
flat?
Solid fuel will also require storage - do you have a suitable area?

Yes. There is room outside for a tank, provided it's not too massive.
How big does the oil tank need to be? Can it be positioned against the
building? Does it have to be within x feet of the road for filling
purposes?


Oil is an economical fuel and modern boilers do not have smell problems.
However it is not generally suitable for installation above the ground floor
so the first question is do you have a ground floor location available for
the boiler (wall mounted ones are available but lifting oil does give rise
to extra work for the fuel pump).
Oil tanks must be installed to comply with building regs and also the
control of pollution act. You would be well advised to take a look at the
OFTEC website for details. Harlequin fuel tanks is another useful site as is
Firebird Boilers or Trianco Boilers. Google is your friend in this. You can
even have outdoor boiler models with their own weatherproof casings.
Tank location is quite stringent but fuel delivery tankers have lo-o-o-ong
hoses and can cope with up to 25 metres normally although the tanker drivers
find dragging this length of pipe out somewhat onerous
Your concept of the costs of installing central heating do seem to be
somewhat unreal even allowing for you carrying out most of the work
yourself.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:45:49 +0000 (UTC), "John"
wrote:

Oil is an economical fuel and modern boilers do not have smell problems.
However it is not generally suitable for installation above the ground floor
so the first question is do you have a ground floor location available for
the boiler (wall mounted ones are available but lifting oil does give rise
to extra work for the fuel pump).

Yes indeed. The flat is on the ground floor.

Oil tanks must be installed to comply with building regs and also the
control of pollution act. You would be well advised to take a look at the
OFTEC website for details. Harlequin fuel tanks is another useful site as is
Firebird Boilers or Trianco Boilers. Google is your friend in this.

Thanks for the lead.

You can
even have outdoor boiler models with their own weatherproof casings.
Tank location is quite stringent but fuel delivery tankers have lo-o-o-ong
hoses and can cope with up to 25 metres normally although the tanker drivers
find dragging this length of pipe out somewhat onerous
Your concept of the costs of installing central heating do seem to be
somewhat unreal even allowing for you carrying out most of the work
yourself.

Actually, the central heating system (radiators and pipework) is
already installed. It was running off a gas boiler in the flat above.
But now we want to split the system so that each flat is
independedent. So apart from a minor alteration to the plumbing, the
only real expense is getting a boiler installed plus the means to fuel
it. Sounds like oil might be an option. has anyone had an oil-fired
boiler and tank installed? Care to reveal the cost?

J

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:45:43 +0000, "."
wrote:


Oil boiler to rads will be your best option, oil is cheap enough and the
installation costs will be very similar to gas but without the
connection cost, as other posters have said though 1K is too little 2-3
I would have thought

Thanks for the input. Does that 2-3K include the installation of the
rads and their pipework or just the tank and boiler? I already have
the c/h rads and their associated plumbing installed. All I need is a
boiler and the means to fuel it. (then the minor plumbing work to
connect it up to my existing pipework, which I can do myself at a
pinch).

J

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:45:49 +0000 (UTC), "John"
wrote:

Oil is an economical fuel and modern boilers do not have smell problems.
snipped

Actually, the central heating system (radiators and pipework) is
already installed. It was running off a gas boiler in the flat above.
But now we want to split the system so that each flat is
independedent. So apart from a minor alteration to the plumbing, the
only real expense is getting a boiler installed plus the means to fuel
it. Sounds like oil might be an option. has anyone had an oil-fired
boiler and tank installed? Care to reveal the cost?

J


What? The flat above yours has gas? Why not get the gas co. to take a
tapping off it and fit a separate meter for your flat? I'm sure that won't
cost hundreds and hundreds of pounds. You already have pipework to
radiators and things, which should also be easily altered to make two
separate smaller systems from one large one.

I think you should check the pricing of a gas supply and boiler thoroughly
first before jumping in to alternative fuels and things.

In article , Jimmy
writes
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:45:43 +0000, "."
wrote:


Oil boiler to rads will be your best option, oil is cheap enough and the
installation costs will be very similar to gas but without the
connection cost, as other posters have said though 1K is too little 2-3
I would have thought

Thanks for the input. Does that 2-3K include the installation of the
rads and their pipework or just the tank and boiler? I already have
the c/h rads and their associated plumbing installed. All I need is a
boiler and the means to fuel it. (then the minor plumbing work to
connect it up to my existing pipework, which I can do myself at a
pinch).

My price included the rads, at a guess- 6-700 for the boiler, 2-300 for
the tank, plus installation, 2-3 days work so about 1500 in total

--
..

"BigWallop" wrote in message
. uk...

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:45:49 +0000 (UTC), "John"
wrote:

Oil is an economical fuel and modern boilers do not have smell
problems.
snipped

Actually, the central heating system (radiators and pipework) is
already installed. It was running off a gas boiler in the flat above.
But now we want to split the system so that each flat is
independedent. So apart from a minor alteration to the plumbing, the
only real expense is getting a boiler installed plus the means to fuel
it. Sounds like oil might be an option. has anyone had an oil-fired
boiler and tank installed? Care to reveal the cost?

J


What? The flat above yours has gas? Why not get the gas co. to take a
tapping off it and fit a separate meter for your flat? I'm sure that
won't
cost hundreds and hundreds of pounds. You already have pipework to
radiators and things, which should also be easily altered to make two
separate smaller systems from one large one.

I think you should check the pricing of a gas supply and boiler thoroughly
first before jumping in to alternative fuels and things.



Definitely true. A floor mounted oil combi would be about standard fridge
size or wider, and would cost around £1500 then there's the tank at anything
from £300 to £750 plus civils to construct a base which might account for
about £50 or so materials. Its unlikely that you could fully commission an
oil boiler yourself so again another £100 or so depending on geographic
location
The old rads and pipes will require cleaning out which even diy needs
chemicals. This would be a common cost to whatever fuel is eventually
decided upon though.
Although the oil combi is a storage type and can give high flow rates (until
the store is depleted) so much more user friendly than MOST gas combis it
does look like having a few hundred pounds cost to install a gas supply
isn't really going to tip the scales towards oil.

In this case I'd say a formal enquiry to a gas supplier for a quote is
neccessary, together with consideration of a Glow worm 30CXi condensing gas
combi or similar.

My price included the rads, at a guess- 6-700 for the boiler, 2-300 for
the tank, plus installation, 2-3 days work so about 1500 in total

You must seriously live up north somewhere! You'd be lucky to get a boiler
alone installed for 1500 quid, let alone tanks and rads.

Christian.

Actually, the central heating system (radiators and pipework) is
already installed. It was running off a gas boiler in the flat above.

If gas is that close, then go for it. The oil tank installation will
probably cost more than the gas pipework. Piped natural gas is seriously
superior to oil and far more attractive to potential purchasers, for good
reason.

Christian.

Jimmy wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:45:49 +0000 (UTC), "John"
wrote:


Oil is an economical fuel and modern boilers do not have smell problems.
However it is not generally suitable for installation above the ground floor
so the first question is do you have a ground floor location available for
the boiler (wall mounted ones are available but lifting oil does give rise
to extra work for the fuel pump).


Yes indeed. The flat is on the ground floor.


Oil tanks must be installed to comply with building regs and also the
control of pollution act. You would be well advised to take a look at the
OFTEC website for details. Harlequin fuel tanks is another useful site as is
Firebird Boilers or Trianco Boilers. Google is your friend in this.


Thanks for the lead.


You can
even have outdoor boiler models with their own weatherproof casings.
Tank location is quite stringent but fuel delivery tankers have lo-o-o-ong
hoses and can cope with up to 25 metres normally although the tanker drivers
find dragging this length of pipe out somewhat onerous
Your concept of the costs of installing central heating do seem to be
somewhat unreal even allowing for you carrying out most of the work
yourself.


Actually, the central heating system (radiators and pipework) is
already installed. It was running off a gas boiler in the flat above.
But now we want to split the system so that each flat is
independedent. So apart from a minor alteration to the plumbing, the
only real expense is getting a boiler installed plus the means to fuel
it. Sounds like oil might be an option. has anyone had an oil-fired
boiler and tank installed? Care to reveal the cost?

J
About a grand and a half to two grand.

In article , Christian
McArdle writes
My price included the rads, at a guess- 6-700 for the boiler, 2-300 for
the tank, plus installation, 2-3 days work so about 1500 in total

You must seriously live up north somewhere! You'd be lucky to get a boiler
alone installed for 1500 quid, let alone tanks and rads.

Christian.

700-800 for the boiler then(just looked it up), you reckon 7-800 for the
boiler installation? sounds too much to me, putting in an oil boiler is
a doddle

--
..

700-800 for the boiler then(just looked it up), you reckon 7-800 for the
boiler installation? sounds too much to me, putting in an oil boiler is
a doddle

Down here you have to plead with a plumber to quote you. British Gas would
probably charge 2500+ just to swap a boiler. You might get someone to
install for 1500, but it would require a lot of phoning around. You won't
get anyone round here installing radiators and tanks as well for that money.

Christian.

"Jimmy" wrote
| I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own. I think it would
| cost me a few hundred pounds to have a gas main laid on.

Which is peanuts. *GAS* C/H will add considerably more value to your flat.

| After that, I'd need to fork out another few hundred to install a combi
| boiler to heat the DHW and the C/H radiators. I can imagine the total
| cost amounting to way over £1000. I'm wondering if there are other
| avenues I could consider for heating.

Any boiler form of heating, you will still have to pay for the boiler and
rads.

| There's electricity of course but it's obviously expensive to run.

It can be feasible on Economy 7 tariff if the flat is well-insulated, and
might have a lower installation cost. However even modern storage heaters
are bulky and the system is less flexible than instant heating from
radiators, so buyers will be discouraged.

One advantage of a gas combi is that it removes the need for hot water
storage cylinder, which releases space - which again can have a financial
value in a flat. Gas combi will also give a reasonably good shower (in most
circumstances), which most flat dwellers will prefer.

| What other fuels could I use that would eliminate that expense of a
| gas main installation?
| What about (a) oil

Requires a tank. This may be a major problem with a flat.

| and (b)coal or coke?

For a flat??? Are you crazy??? Buyers will walk away. NO flat buyer wants to
carry coal about or dispose of the ash. Hint: Queen Victoria has died. Women
go out to work and want to keep their fingernails smart. Maids-of-all-work
can no longer be hired for thruppence a month all found.

| There seems to be a likelihood that gas will get more expensive in the
| future too, which is another reason I'm keen to know about any viable
| alternatives.

From that point of view, the best power source to go for would be
electricity, as it can be generated from the cheapest fuel available at the
time, including increasing 'renewables'. However, current gas supplies are
likely to last, and cheap renewables won't come on stream, until maybe 15 or
20 years in the future, by which time a gas boiler will be due for replacing
anyway, whether by a new one or something else.

Owain

In article , Christian
McArdle writes
700-800 for the boiler then(just looked it up), you reckon 7-800 for the
boiler installation? sounds too much to me, putting in an oil boiler is
a doddle

Down here you have to plead with a plumber to quote you. British Gas would
probably charge 2500+ just to swap a boiler. You might get someone to
install for 1500, but it would require a lot of phoning around. You won't
get anyone round here installing radiators and tanks as well for that money.

Christian.

I am just talking about the boiler Christian, BTW I'm in Suffolk. The op
said he could do the pipework himself if needed, to get anywhere near
the type of money he wants to spend this is the best option, as I said
putting in an oil boiler is a doddle (have done three installations
myself and I am no plumber/heating engineer) He can buy a tank for 200
squids and put it down on fully supported slabs or a small slab.

This weekend we have a boiler change at our village hall, its costing
about 3 grand with the boiler being about 1900 IIRC (oil combi,
industrial model), the rest is on a new plastic tank on a new base
(included), removing existing cylinder, re-routing/new pipework, putting
in new control system and installing 2 electric water heaters *and* this
wasn't the cheapest quote but they do come recommended
--
..

This weekend we have a boiler change at our village hall, its costing
about 3 grand with the boiler being about 1900 IIRC (oil combi,
industrial model), the rest is on a new plastic tank on a new base
(included), removing existing cylinder, re-routing/new pipework, putting
in new control system and installing 2 electric water heaters *and* this
wasn't the cheapest quote but they do come recommended

Yes, things seem a lot more reasonable in Suffolk.

Christian.

In article , Christian
McArdle writes
This weekend we have a boiler change at our village hall, its costing
about 3 grand with the boiler being about 1900 IIRC (oil combi,
industrial model), the rest is on a new plastic tank on a new base
(included), removing existing cylinder, re-routing/new pipework, putting
in new control system and installing 2 electric water heaters *and* this
wasn't the cheapest quote but they do come recommended

Yes, things seem a lot more reasonable in Suffolk.

Christian.


Its the six fingers on each hand that helps, oh no sorry that's NFN
(Normal For Norfolk)
--
..

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:36:06 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:

"Jimmy" wrote
| I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own. I think it would
| cost me a few hundred pounds to have a gas main laid on.

Which is peanuts. *GAS* C/H will add considerably more value to your flat.

| After that, I'd need to fork out another few hundred to install a combi
| boiler to heat the DHW and the C/H radiators. I can imagine the total
| cost amounting to way over £1000. I'm wondering if there are other
| avenues I could consider for heating.

Any boiler form of heating, you will still have to pay for the boiler and
rads.

| There's electricity of course but it's obviously expensive to run.

It can be feasible on Economy 7 tariff if the flat is well-insulated, and
might have a lower installation cost. However even modern storage heaters
are bulky and the system is less flexible than instant heating from
radiators, so buyers will be discouraged.

One advantage of a gas combi is that it removes the need for hot water
storage cylinder, which releases space - which again can have a financial
value in a flat. Gas combi will also give a reasonably good shower (in most
circumstances), which most flat dwellers will prefer.

| What other fuels could I use that would eliminate that expense of a
| gas main installation?
| What about (a) oil

Requires a tank. This may be a major problem with a flat.

| and (b)coal or coke?

For a flat??? Are you crazy??? Buyers will walk away. NO flat buyer wants to
carry coal about or dispose of the ash. Hint: Queen Victoria has died. Women
go out to work and want to keep their fingernails smart. Maids-of-all-work
can no longer be hired for thruppence a month all found.

| There seems to be a likelihood that gas will get more expensive in the
| future too, which is another reason I'm keen to know about any viable
| alternatives.

From that point of view, the best power source to go for would be
electricity, as it can be generated from the cheapest fuel available at the
time, including increasing 'renewables'. However, current gas supplies are
likely to last, and cheap renewables won't come on stream, until maybe 15 or
20 years in the future, by which time a gas boiler will be due for replacing
anyway, whether by a new one or something else.

Some good points there. Looks like gas it is then - as long the
meter-installers are happy to take a feed from the gas pipe going to
the flat above. If they tell me I've got to have a separate main
coming from the pipeline inder the road, I might have to opt for oil
to avoid bankruptcy.

J

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:36:06 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:
snipped

Some good points there. Looks like gas it is then - as long the
meter-installers are happy to take a feed from the gas pipe going to
the flat above. If they tell me I've got to have a separate main
coming from the pipeline inder the road, I might have to opt for oil
to avoid bankruptcy.

J


You should find it a standard sort of practice by the gas supply people, to
install a pipe that will be suitable for at least double the amount of
dwellings on a site. The mains to your property is meant for one large
house, and the only alteration to this is the split in to two separate
flats. So the pipework should still be suitable to supply the whole large
property, but just in two parts.

Give them a call and find out the exact price for this work. Then decide.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:36:30 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:36:06 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:
snipped

Some good points there. Looks like gas it is then - as long the
meter-installers are happy to take a feed from the gas pipe going to
the flat above. If they tell me I've got to have a separate main
coming from the pipeline inder the road, I might have to opt for oil
to avoid bankruptcy.

J


You should find it a standard sort of practice by the gas supply people, to
install a pipe that will be suitable for at least double the amount of
dwellings on a site. The mains to your property is meant for one large
house, and the only alteration to this is the split in to two separate
flats. So the pipework should still be suitable to supply the whole large
property, but just in two parts.

Give them a call and find out the exact price for this work. Then decide.

Thanks... But give who a call? ...The various gas supply copmpanies,
and see who offers the best price?

Cheers

J

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:36:30 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:36:06 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:
snipped

Some good points there. Looks like gas it is then - as long the
meter-installers are happy to take a feed from the gas pipe going to
the flat above. If they tell me I've got to have a separate main
coming from the pipeline inder the road, I might have to opt for oil
to avoid bankruptcy.

J


You should find it a standard sort of practice by the gas supply people,
to
install a pipe that will be suitable for at least double the amount of
dwellings on a site. The mains to your property is meant for one large
house, and the only alteration to this is the split in to two separate
flats. So the pipework should still be suitable to supply the whole
large
property, but just in two parts.

Give them a call and find out the exact price for this work. Then
decide.

Thanks... But give who a call? ...The various gas supply copmpanies,
and see who offers the best price?

Cheers

J


Transco are the only people that fit mains gas pipes and meters, but your
local, ask the neighbour, gas supplier will be able to put you through the
wringer, sorry, give you a price for this. :-)

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:48:02 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:36:30 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:36:06 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:
snipped

Some good points there. Looks like gas it is then - as long the
meter-installers are happy to take a feed from the gas pipe going to
the flat above. If they tell me I've got to have a separate main
coming from the pipeline inder the road, I might have to opt for oil
to avoid bankruptcy.

J


You should find it a standard sort of practice by the gas supply people,
to
install a pipe that will be suitable for at least double the amount of
dwellings on a site. The mains to your property is meant for one large
house, and the only alteration to this is the split in to two separate
flats. So the pipework should still be suitable to supply the whole
large
property, but just in two parts.

Give them a call and find out the exact price for this work. Then
decide.

Thanks... But give who a call? ...The various gas supply copmpanies,
and see who offers the best price?

Cheers

J


Transco are the only people that fit mains gas pipes and meters, but your
local, ask the neighbour, gas supplier will be able to put you through the
wringer, sorry, give you a price for this. :-)

So, sorry to seem slow to comprehend, but should I go direct to
transco or should I go to the local gas supplier?

Which one is least likely to bleed me dry, financially: transco if I
go to them direct , or transco, called upon by a gas supplier I choose
to approach?

Are you sure transco are the only people allowed to fit meters? Don't
they license any of the gas supplies to do that?

J

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 21:09:50 +0000, Jimmy wrote:


I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own. I think it would
cost me a few hundred pounds to have a gas main laid on. After that,
I'd need to fork out another few hundred to install a combi boiler to
heat the DHW and the C/H radiators. I can imagine the total cost
amounting to way over £1000. I'm wondering if there are other avenues
I could consider for heating.

There's electricity of course but it's obviously expensive to run.
What other fuels could I use that would eliminate that expense of a
gas main installation?

What about (a) oil and (b)coal or coke? Obviously these are
potentially messier than gas, but what about the actual cost, both for
the initial installation and then the running costs? Has anyone used
these fuels for central heating and tapwater heating?

There seems to be a likelihood that gas will get more expensive in the
future too, which is another reason I'm keen to know about any viable
alternatives.

I remember when I was in Canada about 15 years ago, I noted that many
people used oil-fired warm-air central heating. But the boiler looked
like a large and expensive item.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice.


When the cost of additional items like tanks or bunkers are added to the
increased costs of the non-gas appliance gas looks by far the best of the
non-electric options.

Electric heating is far from ideal, high running costs, lack of control.
In fact for someone or a couple who is/are out all day, it may work out
far simpler and cheaper to install electric convector heaters rather than
storage units.
With timers and thermostats, using normal full price juice selectively
will likely work out much better than storage units filled with cheaper
heat that is wasted during the day.

If mains gas is available even if it costs many hundred to setup then the
only argument that would prevent you installing gas CH would be that you
could not (yet) afford to do so. You will likely add twice its cost to the
value of the flat.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"." wrote in message
...
Oil boiler to rads will be your best option, oil is cheap enough and
the
installation costs will be very similar to gas but without the
connection cost, as other posters have said though 1K is too little 2-3
I would have thought

Thanks for the input. Does that 2-3K include the installation of the
rads and their pipework or just the tank and boiler? I already have
the c/h rads and their associated plumbing installed. All I need is a
boiler and the means to fuel it. (then the minor plumbing work to
connect it up to my existing pipework, which I can do myself at a
pinch).

My price included the rads, at a guess- 6-700 for the boiler, 2-300 for
the tank, plus installation, 2-3 days work so about 1500 in total


Depends where you live. Many (becoming most with the latest regulations)
require a bunded tank which triples the price. And once you add a flue it's
nearer £800 for the boiler.

"." wrote in message
...
In article , Christian
McArdle writes
My price included the rads, at a guess- 6-700 for the boiler, 2-300 for
the tank, plus installation, 2-3 days work so about 1500 in total

You must seriously live up north somewhere! You'd be lucky to get a
boiler
alone installed for 1500 quid, let alone tanks and rads.

Christian.

700-800 for the boiler then(just looked it up), you reckon 7-800 for the
boiler installation? sounds too much to me, putting in an oil boiler is
a doddle

It is indeed a doddle. Then the hard bit starts, finding a BCO and
commissioning guy willing to work together on getting the paperwork done.
Each tries to put off as much onto the other as possible.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 20:20:10 -0000, "Mike" wrote:


It is indeed a doddle. Then the hard bit starts, finding a BCO and
commissioning guy willing to work together on getting the paperwork done.
Each tries to put off as much onto the other as possible.

Are you recommending that I pay through the teeth to get a corgi
plumber to do the gas plumbing work? Can the corgi plumber issue the
certification you mentioned, or can that only be issued by a BCO?

What about if I sell the place more than 12 months after the work was
done? Would a certificate still be necessary for selling purposes?

J

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:48:02 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

snipped

Transco are the only people that fit mains gas pipes and meters, but
your
local, ask the neighbour, gas supplier will be able to put you through
the
wringer, sorry, give you a price for this. :-)

So, sorry to seem slow to comprehend, but should I go direct to
transco or should I go to the local gas supplier?

Which one is least likely to bleed me dry, financially: transco if I
go to them direct , or transco, called upon by a gas supplier I choose
to approach?

Are you sure transco are the only people allowed to fit meters? Don't
they license any of the gas supplies to do that?

J


It is Transco that have the UK contract for all civil mains gas supply
pipework and meter installations, but you need to call a gas supplier to
have them contract you with the installation of anything you need to make a
separate supply to your home. The gas supplier then gives the contract to
Transco to make the installation and then the gas supplier charges you for
the new supply of gas.

(ask your upstairs neighbour which gas supplier they use)

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:03:27 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

It is Transco that have the UK contract for all civil mains gas supply
pipework and meter installations, but you need to call a gas supplier to
have them contract you with the installation of anything you need to make a
separate supply to your home. The gas supplier then gives the contract to
Transco to make the installation and then the gas supplier charges you for
the new supply of gas.

And the cost of installing the meter, yes? But does the supplier
instruct the transco crew regarding what exactly to do? eg, to dig a
trench to the other side of the road where the pipeline is, or simply
take a feed from the cast iron riser already installed, to the other
flat ages ago? If so, is it possible that different gas supplies would
have different instructions to give the transco bods (and therefore
wildly varying quotes)?

(ask your upstairs neighbour which gas supplier they use)

That's easy; I own both flats, so I already know who the gas supplier
for the second flat is. But am I limited to that supplier when it
comes to getting a meter installed in the second flat? Or can I get
quotes from, say three suppliers and sign up with the one who'll do
the installation the cheapest?

Thanks

J

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:03:27 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

It is Transco that have the UK contract for all civil mains gas supply
pipework and meter installations, but you need to call a gas supplier to
have them contract you with the installation of anything you need to
make a
separate supply to your home. The gas supplier then gives the contract
to
Transco to make the installation and then the gas supplier charges you
for
the new supply of gas.

And the cost of installing the meter, yes? But does the supplier
instruct the transco crew regarding what exactly to do? eg, to dig a
trench to the other side of the road where the pipeline is, or simply
take a feed from the cast iron riser already installed, to the other
flat ages ago? If so, is it possible that different gas supplies would
have different instructions to give the transco bods (and therefore
wildly varying quotes)?

(ask your upstairs neighbour which gas supplier they use)

That's easy; I own both flats, so I already know who the gas supplier
for the second flat is. But am I limited to that supplier when it
comes to getting a meter installed in the second flat? Or can I get
quotes from, say three suppliers and sign up with the one who'll do
the installation the cheapest?

Thanks

J


The mains gas riser to the house used to supply the whole house as one when
it was installed, so a tapping from the same riser, malleable iron, pipe
will easily supply two individual meters in the same house.

I don't see why you asked for an alternative means of fuel on this house.
You already have a gas mains supply to the house, and a supplier already
giving you gas to the same property. Transco charge the gas suppliers a
standard flat rate on materials for installing a metered supply to any
property, and the gas supplier then charges you their price for having the
work done.

You already have a gas supplier to the same house, so I think you'd be
getting a discount for making the supply split to two different parts of the
same house. You'd be paying them two sets of rental charges on the meters
to the same house where you used pay for only one set of rental charges. I
think they'd be over the moon at that deal.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:56:06 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:03:27 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

It is Transco that have the UK contract for all civil mains gas supply
pipework and meter installations, but you need to call a gas supplier to
have them contract you with the installation of anything you need to
make a
separate supply to your home. The gas supplier then gives the contract
to
Transco to make the installation and then the gas supplier charges you
for
the new supply of gas.

And the cost of installing the meter, yes? But does the supplier
instruct the transco crew regarding what exactly to do? eg, to dig a
trench to the other side of the road where the pipeline is, or simply
take a feed from the cast iron riser already installed, to the other
flat ages ago? If so, is it possible that different gas supplies would
have different instructions to give the transco bods (and therefore
wildly varying quotes)?

(ask your upstairs neighbour which gas supplier they use)

That's easy; I own both flats, so I already know who the gas supplier
for the second flat is. But am I limited to that supplier when it
comes to getting a meter installed in the second flat? Or can I get
quotes from, say three suppliers and sign up with the one who'll do
the installation the cheapest?

Thanks

J


The mains gas riser to the house used to supply the whole house as one when
it was installed, so a tapping from the same riser, malleable iron, pipe
will easily supply two individual meters in the same house.

I hope you are right about that. Someone was saying otherwise in an
earlier thread. (Remember, they were talking about how each dwelling
might need its own riser because transco are starting to pull plastic
pipes through the cast iron risers or something)?

I don't see why you asked for an alternative means of fuel on this house.
You already have a gas mains supply to the house, and a supplier already
giving you gas to the same property. Transco charge the gas suppliers a
standard flat rate on materials for installing a metered supply to any
property, and the gas supplier then charges you their price for having the
work done.

You already have a gas supplier to the same house, so I think you'd be
getting a discount for making the supply split to two different parts of the
same house. You'd be paying them two sets of rental charges on the meters
to the same house where you used pay for only one set of rental charges. I
think they'd be over the moon at that deal.

That last point is something I hadn't considered. Many thanks for the
reassurance. I suppose I'll take the plunge and call the supplier.

How about getting a second electric meter put in for the second flat.
Can a similar thing be done for that, (avoiding the need for trenches
to be dug, etc)? At the moment,. the whole house has just one mains
unit on the inside of the house on the ground floor.

J

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:03:27 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


It is Transco that have the UK contract for all civil mains gas supply
pipework and meter installations, but you need to call a gas supplier to
have them contract you with the installation of anything you need to make a
separate supply to your home. The gas supplier then gives the contract to
Transco to make the installation and then the gas supplier charges you for
the new supply of gas.

(ask your upstairs neighbour which gas supplier they use)

Just out of interest, Transco does supply a few large users, such as
Corus (ex British Steel), directly.

--
Frank Erskine

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:56:06 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

snipped

How about getting a second electric meter put in for the second flat.
Can a similar thing be done for that, (avoiding the need for trenches
to be dug, etc)? At the moment,. the whole house has just one mains
unit on the inside of the house on the ground floor.

J


How is the flat being supplied with electricity just now?

You can have a sub mains supply taken from the existing head end. This
entails only three Henley Blocks and one mains isolator switch to be
installed so that both supplies are still taken through the original
electricity supply system. The same applies to this as with the gas. The
same supply was always used by the whole house anyway, so just separating
the house in to two flats should be just like running the whole house as
before.

A separate electricity meter must be fitted by the Leccy company contractors
of course, but you can run a 25 mm Two Core SWA (Steel Wire Armoured) Cable
yourself from the existing head end to where you want the new meter to be
sited in the new flat. You can also install the Henley Blocks and a main
100 Amps rated isolator switch, it doesn't need to be fused because there is
already a fuse on the existing main head end that it is all connecting to.
The Leccy co. contractors will do the rest for you if everything passes
their final tests.

You must already have the new flat wired for single stand alone operation,
with its own consumer unit and 25 mm csa' (cross sectional area) Double
Insulated cable tails ready for the connection to the new meter when it is
installed. They will not connect the new flat to the new supply unless they
can test all the wiring installation for proper operation. If they find any
faults, and I mean even the slightest fault, with the wiring, they will not
connect the new supply to the consumer unit. They will then charge you
further call-out and labour costs for any other visits they have to make
after any remedial work they say you have to do. So it's better to get it
all done perfectly before you go calling them in to connect you up to a new
supply.

Hope this helps you a bit.

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 02:17:47 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:56:06 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

snipped

How about getting a second electric meter put in for the second flat.
Can a similar thing be done for that, (avoiding the need for trenches
to be dug, etc)? At the moment,. the whole house has just one mains
unit on the inside of the house on the ground floor.

J


How is the flat being supplied with electricity just now?

I think, there is a cable going froma second master switch at the
original mains unit, to a coin meter in the second flat. In fact,
there must be because the second flat has a coin meter installed. And
ther's aslo a box in the flat with an on-off switch and cirquit
breakers inside. I did it all myself, years ago, but can't remember
the finer details.

However I never really separated the two flats' circuits entirely. For
example, the lighting for the whole house still runs from a fuse on
the original box. The coin meters in the flats only controls the ring
mains not the lighting.

I need to separate the cirquits properly now - bot the ring main and
the lighting circuits.

You can have a sub mains supply taken from the existing head end. This
entails only three Henley Blocks

I'll have to look up "head end" and "Henley block" tomorrow. Those
terms don't ring a bell with me. ..but I think I'm following what
youre saying.

and one mains isolator switch to be
installed so that both supplies are still taken through the original
electricity supply system. The same applies to this as with the gas. The
same supply was always used by the whole house anyway, so just separating
the house in to two flats should be just like running the whole house as
before.

A separate electricity meter must be fitted by the Leccy company contractors
of course, but you can run a 25 mm Two Core SWA (Steel Wire Armoured) Cable
yourself from the existing head end to where you want the new meter to be
sited in the new flat. You can also install the Henley Blocks and a main
100 Amps rated isolator switch, it doesn't need to be fused because there is
already a fuse on the existing main head end that it is all connecting to.
The Leccy co. contractors will do the rest for you if everything passes
their final tests.

You must already have the new flat wired for single stand alone operation,
with its own consumer unit and 25 mm csa' (cross sectional area) Double
Insulated cable tails ready for the connection to the new meter when it is
installed. They will not connect the new flat to the new supply unless they
can test all the wiring installation for proper operation. If they find any
faults, and I mean even the slightest fault, with the wiring, they will not
connect the new supply to the consumer unit.

Can't they just install the meter and let me (or a proper electrician
working for me) connect it up to the cirquit after they've gone?

They will then charge you
further call-out and labour costs for any other visits they have to make
after any remedial work they say you have to do. So it's better to get it
all done perfectly before you go calling them in to connect you up to a new
supply.

Hope this helps you a bit.

It certainly does. It's giving me hope about possibilities I didn't
know existed. In fact I didn't have much of a clue about the subject.
Thank you.

J

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 02:17:47 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

snipped
You must already have the new flat wired for single stand alone
operation,
with its own consumer unit and 25 mm csa' (cross sectional area) Double
Insulated cable tails ready for the connection to the new meter when it
is
installed. They will not connect the new flat to the new supply unless
they
can test all the wiring installation for proper operation. If they find
any
faults, and I mean even the slightest fault, with the wiring, they will
not
connect the new supply to the consumer unit.

Can't they just install the meter and let me (or a proper electrician
working for me) connect it up to the cirquit after they've gone?

No. The whole installation must be already complete and set to go before
they will test and connect the new electrical supply to it. If they just
installed the new supply and meter without anything there, you have the
chance of connecting a totally, excuse the French here, ****ed up wiring
scheme to it after they've gone and blowing everything apart. They must
have a fully working and safe wiring system to connect to before they
finalise their installation and seal the meter and main fuse head end.

(BTW, a head end is the end of the big thick cable that brings the
electrical supply in to the house and has the main fuses and the meter
connected to it)

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:56:06 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:03:27 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

It is Transco that have the UK contract for all civil mains gas
supply
pipework and meter installations, but you need to call a gas supplier
to
have them contract you with the installation of anything you need to
make a
separate supply to your home. The gas supplier then gives the
contract
to
Transco to make the installation and then the gas supplier charges
you
for
the new supply of gas.

And the cost of installing the meter, yes? But does the supplier
instruct the transco crew regarding what exactly to do? eg, to dig a
trench to the other side of the road where the pipeline is, or simply
take a feed from the cast iron riser already installed, to the other
flat ages ago? If so, is it possible that different gas supplies would
have different instructions to give the transco bods (and therefore
wildly varying quotes)?

(ask your upstairs neighbour which gas supplier they use)

That's easy; I own both flats, so I already know who the gas supplier
for the second flat is. But am I limited to that supplier when it
comes to getting a meter installed in the second flat? Or can I get
quotes from, say three suppliers and sign up with the one who'll do
the installation the cheapest?

Thanks

J


The mains gas riser to the house used to supply the whole house as one
when
it was installed, so a tapping from the same riser, malleable iron, pipe
will easily supply two individual meters in the same house.

This is not neccessarily true. As you are now talking about seperate
households each will be given a supply capable ("properly" not under
overload conditions) of delivering 6m^3 per hour with only the permissible
pressure drop i.e. not below incoming supply permissible limits. A pipe
which used to give 6m^3 may not be able to give 12m^3 under these
constraints.
You should ask for a quote to have a supply of gas installed and go from
there.
Transco operate to engineering standards which are not negotiable.