Have just bought some 25mm meter tails cable at TLC, and they have the
new Part P colours. I will finish the work in the next few days,
before Part P takes effect. TLC said that they will be getting stocks
of 2.5 mm, 1.5mm and 1mm cable, also with the new colours, "any day
now".
Hence, anyone using cable with the new colours could genuinely have
finished the work ahead of Part P being introduced. So,looking
ahead,the use of the new colours cannot be deemed by the "authorities"
as evidence of work having been done after Part P came into force.

As an aside, TLC were adamant that Part P will not come into effect in
any way before 1st January 1996, not 1995.

CRB

Hence, anyone using cable with the new colours could genuinely have
finished the work ahead of Part P being introduced. So,looking
ahead,the use of the new colours cannot be deemed by the "authorities"
as evidence of work having been done after Part P came into force.

Indeed the guv'mint cocked up. Hence new colours become available and legal
before Part P was implemented and so cable colour is unable to be used as
proof that work should have been done under the new regulations.

Christian.

"CRB" wrote in message
m...
Have just bought some 25mm meter tails cable at TLC, and they have the
new Part P colours. I will finish the work in the next few days,
before Part P takes effect. TLC said that they will be getting stocks
of 2.5 mm, 1.5mm and 1mm cable, also with the new colours, "any day
now".
Hence, anyone using cable with the new colours could genuinely have
finished the work ahead of Part P being introduced. So,looking
ahead,the use of the new colours cannot be deemed by the "authorities"
as evidence of work having been done after Part P came into force.

As an aside, TLC were adamant that Part P will not come into effect in
any way before 1st January 1996, not 1995.

CRB

I'm pretty sure Part P won't come into effect until well after 1st Jan
1996...

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Hence, anyone using cable with the new colours could genuinely have
finished the work ahead of Part P being introduced. So,looking
ahead,the use of the new colours cannot be deemed by the "authorities"
as evidence of work having been done after Part P came into force.

Indeed the guv'mint cocked up. Hence new colours become available and
legal
before Part P was implemented and so cable colour is unable to be used as
proof that work should have been done under the new regulations.

Keep the receipt. It is simple really.

"CRB" wrote in message
m...
Have just bought some 25mm meter tails cable at TLC, and they have the
new Part P colours. I will finish the work in the next few days,
before Part P takes effect. TLC said that they will be getting stocks
of 2.5 mm, 1.5mm and 1mm cable, also with the new colours, "any day
now".

My TLC had 3-and-earth and twin-and-earth in new colours,
but could only sell me heat-resistant sleeving (for inside exterior
lights) in red and black.

Al

as evidence of work having been done after Part P came into force.

Indeed the guv'mint cocked up. Hence new colours become available and
legal
before Part P was implemented and so cable colour is unable to be used as
proof that work should have been done under the new regulations.

A good reason to buy a few reels of old colours now before everyone runs out
so I have "stock" for jobs over the next few years and there can be no
question about when the work was done later ;-)

My local electrical wholesaler had no old colours left when I tried but B&Q
had plenty.

On 26 Nov 2004 06:58:32 -0800, (CRB) wrote:

Have just bought some 25mm meter tails cable at TLC, and they have the
new Part P colours. I will finish the work in the next few days,
before Part P takes effect. TLC said that they will be getting stocks
of 2.5 mm, 1.5mm and 1mm cable, also with the new colours, "any day
now".
Hence, anyone using cable with the new colours could genuinely have
finished the work ahead of Part P being introduced. So,looking
ahead,the use of the new colours cannot be deemed by the "authorities"
as evidence of work having been done after Part P came into force.

As an aside, TLC were adamant that Part P will not come into effect in
any way before 1st January 1996, not 1995.

CRB

I got new colours a few months ago from my local place.
They also said that it was no longer available in white - is this true or just what they had got...?

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Indeed the guv'mint cocked up. Hence new colours become available and
legal before Part P was implemented and so cable colour is unable to
be used as proof that work should have been done under the new
regulations.

Keep the receipt. It is simple really.

Does it say 'one reel of new colour cable' on it?

--
*Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
IMM wrote:
Indeed the guv'mint cocked up. Hence new colours become available and
legal before Part P was implemented and so cable colour is unable to
be used as proof that work should have been done under the new
regulations.

Keep the receipt. It is simple really.

Does it say 'one reel of new colour cable' on it?



Or, would the receipt say "Cable without the old colours because of Part P"?
LOL!!!

Alan wrote:

My local electrical wholesaler had no old colours left when I tried but B&Q
had plenty.

My local B&Q branches had all previously run down their cable stock and
put up signs saying they would be replaced with a new range in due
course. Today I noticed they were well stocked again (full reels as well
as the expensive off-cuts!) and I had a look expecting it to be
harmonised colours, but it wasn't ...

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:23:27 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:

Keep the receipt. It is simple really.

You dopey old ****.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:47:13 GMT, Mike Harrison
strung together this:

I got new colours a few months ago from my local place.

Me too, been using harmonised colours for ages now.

They also said that it was no longer available in white - is this true or just what they had got...?

Could be either, depends who the manufacturers are that supplied them
with the info.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

In article ,
Lurch wrote:
Keep the receipt. It is simple really.

You dopey old ****.

Don't be so cruel. A decent counter hand says that to all his customers.

--
*You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:23:27 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:

Keep the receipt. It is simple really.

You dopey old ****.

Less of the old.

On 26 Nov 2004 06:58:32 -0800, a particular chimpanzee named
(CRB) randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

As an aside, TLC were adamant that Part P will not come into effect in
any way before 1st January 1996, not 1995.

Well, they're going to be a bit ****ed when it comes into force from
the end of next month.
--
Hugo Nebula
'What you have to ask yourself is, "if no-one on the internet wants
a piece of this, just how far from the pack have you strayed?"'

In article ,
Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:
As an aside, TLC were adamant that Part P will not come into effect in
any way before 1st January 1996, not 1995.

Well, they're going to be a bit ****ed when it comes into force from
the end of next month.

R4 has just confirmed this.

--
*Sometimes I wake up grumpy; Other times I let him sleep.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:
As an aside, TLC were adamant that Part P will not come into effect in
any way before 1st January 1996, not 1995.

Well, they're going to be a bit ****ed when it comes into force from
the end of next month.

R4 has just confirmed this.


The BBC report I heard also went on to say that what needs to be inspected
and what doesn't will be listed on a .gov web site / page January. One has
to wonder why they can't do that now, perhaps Part P's content isn't set in
stone yet (IYSWIM) ?

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:
As an aside, TLC were adamant that Part P will not come into effect in
any way before 1st January 1996, not 1995.

Well, they're going to be a bit ****ed when it comes into force from
the end of next month.

R4 has just confirmed this.

Well, they interviewed someone from ODPM whose name I
didn't recognise who confirmed it. They also commented that
electricians simply aren't joining the accredited schemes.
It's probably on the BBC's listen again service. I was half
asleep, but I think it was on at around 7:30 this morning.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...

Well, they interviewed someone from ODPM whose name I
didn't recognise who confirmed it. They also commented that
electricians simply aren't joining the accredited schemes.
It's probably on the BBC's listen again service. I was half
asleep, but I think it was on at around 7:30 this morning.


Yup. Currently accessible in the from here "Today: Saturday 7-8am":

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/radio4_promo.shtml

Item started at 27 minutes to 8

The junior minister they wheeled out ( I forgot his name too) tried to
downplay the effect on DIY, implying that it has no impact on most DIY,
which isn't true technically, only practically ( Because everyone will just
ignore it)

In article , Coherers
wrote:
Yup. Currently accessible in the from here "Today: Saturday 7-8am":

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/radio4_promo.shtml

For today only easier entry point is

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/

0730

Mention of http://www.partp.co.uk

So far no competent persons in postcode TW

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:47:13 GMT, Mike Harrison
strung together this:

I got new colours a few months ago from my local place.

Me too, been using harmonised colours for ages now.

They also said that it was no longer available in white - is this true or
just what they had got...?

Could be either, depends who the manufacturers are that supplied them
with the info.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

New harmonised colours are availible as the following :--

6242YH and 6243YH in grey only, standard pvc cable

6242BH and 6243BH in white, this is an LSF cable, low smoke and fume, and a
lot more expensive than standard PVC

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:26:27 GMT, Tony Bryer
strung together this:

So far no competent persons in postcode TW

Doesn't appear to be a compotent person anywhere in the country
according to that site.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

Tony Bryer wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/
0730

I thought the 'Today' piece was quite good, their DIYer George
Bishop|Bishard(?) was absolutely spot-on. But in the short news
bulletins on the hour we're now getting "any electrical work not done by
a qualified electrician will have to be checked by [the BCO]" which is
more-or-less ********. A fine example of "send three-and-fourpence
we're going to a dance."

Mention of http://www.partp.co.uk

Which 'Today' described as an official government site. Nominet.uk OTOH
says:

Domain Name:
partp.co.uk

Registrant:
Electrical Contractors Association Limited

Registrant's Address:
ESCA House
34 Palace Court
London
W2 4HY
GB

Hmmm.

So far no competent persons in postcode TW

Nor CB-anything either. I sense another fridge-mountain scale problem
ahead. Maybe there will have to be a moratorium...

--
Andy

Stephen Dawson wrote:

6242BH and 6243BH in white, this is an LSF cable, low smoke and fume, and a
lot more expensive than standard PVC

These are new cable types, mentioned briefly in the current issue of
'Wiring Matters' (IEE publication). They're 90 deg C. rated
thermosetting-insulation types, to BS 7211, and will have higher current
ratings than normal (624xY) twin/triple-&-CPC cables. I've not seen any
current rating data yet though.

'Wiring Matters' mentions their use as appropriate for situations where
it's unavoidable that a cable is completely surrounded in thermal
insulation. There's a forthcoming IEE publication to be called "the
electrician's guide to the building regulations" which will include some
standardised circuit designs for this situation.

Is there a plan, I wonder, that in future flat PVC cables (BS 6004) will
only be available in grey, with white used for this new type?

--
Andy

"Stephen Dawson" wrote in message
...

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:47:13 GMT, Mike Harrison
strung together this:

I got new colours a few months ago from my local place.

Me too, been using harmonised colours for ages now.

They also said that it was no longer available in white - is this true
or
just what they had got...?

Could be either, depends who the manufacturers are that supplied them
with the info.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

New harmonised colours are availible as the following :--

6242YH and 6243YH in grey only, standard pvc cable

You're kidding I hope. What about surface mounted cable ? White (and
occasionally) black are needed for these.

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:03:33 -0000, "Mike" strung
together this:

6242YH and 6243YH in grey only, standard pvc cable

You're kidding I hope. What about surface mounted cable ? White (and
occasionally) black are needed for these.

Why?
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

"IMM" wrote
| "James" wrote
| The BBC website does not mention Part P only applies to England
| and Wales. Yes - it can be argued that similar rules already
| apply to Scotland, but the means of implementation/enforcement
| seem to be radically different.

The only rule in Scotland is that work must comply with the IEE regs. Where
other work is being done which brings the job within the building warrant
process, a wiring certificate will be requested by the BCO. AFAIK there's no
requirement to obtain a building warrant for electrical work on its own.

| Does Part L only apply to Eng & Wales too?

*All* the Building Regulations apply only to E&W. Scotland has entirely
separate regulations, and the part numbering does not correspond.

Unfortunately, my understanding from the last Wiring Matters is that a
similar scheme is being considered for Scotland.

Owain

"IMM" wrote in message
...

Does Part L only apply to Eng & Wales too?




My understanding is that Scotland is a completely separate so far as
building control is concerned, which means they have a separate code. So
Part L does not apply in Scotland as such, although there is probably some
fairly equivalent legislation. What does seem to be very different is how
it is enforced - without the overuse of "competent persons schemes" etc.
For example replacement windows in Scotland do not involve Fensa as a
certifying body.

James


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.802 / Virus Database: 545 - Release Date: 27/11/2004

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:08:18 -0000, a particular chimpanzee named
"Mike" randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Hopefully this will be the one that breaks the camels back. Most people
fully approve building regs for structural work - the early parts - but the
parts L. M and now P are pushing the system into disrepute. Some diy-ing
barrister will hopefully get a human rights violation judgement and this
whole nonsense will go on hold.


Some parts of AD E, H and J are a bit daft, too.

Whatever happened to Part Q - Providing broadband to every new house?
--
Hugo Nebula
'What you have to ask yourself is, "if no-one on the internet wants
a piece of this, just how far from the pack have you strayed?"'

"Hugo Nebula" abuse@localhost wrote in message
...
snip

Whatever happened to Part Q - Providing broadband to every new house?

Creating pipe dreams take longer than balls-ups.....
--
From address changed due to the
individual.net FAQ / AUP changing.

In article , Imm wrote:
Does Part L only apply to Eng & Wales too?

Yep, rules in Scotland and NI are different and completely different
respectively:

http://www.sda.co.uk/info/shw/shewsni.htm

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost wrote:
As an aside, TLC were adamant that Part P will not come into effect in
any way before 1st January 1996, not 1995.

Well, they're going to be a bit ****ed when it comes into force from
the end of next month.

R4 has just confirmed this.

Which? 1996 or 1995?

--
Chris Green

In article ,
wrote:
As an aside, TLC were adamant that Part P will not come into effect in
any way before 1st January 1996, not 1995.

Well, they're going to be a bit ****ed when it comes into force from
the end of next month.

R4 has just confirmed this.

Which? 1996 or 1995?

'95

--
*When a clock is hungry it goes back four seconds.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
wrote:
As an aside, TLC were adamant that Part P will not come into effect in
any way before 1st January 1996, not 1995.

Well, they're going to be a bit ****ed when it comes into force from
the end of next month.

R4 has just confirmed this.

Which? 1996 or 1995?

'95

Is it just me living in a timewarp?
Better nip back into the tardis quickly...

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
As an aside, TLC were adamant that Part P will not come into effect in
any way before 1st January 1996, not 1995.

Well, they're going to be a bit ****ed when it comes into force from
the end of next month.

R4 has just confirmed this.

Which? 1996 or 1995?

'95

Is it just me living in a timewarp?
Better nip back into the tardis quickly...

I must have been fiddling with my sonic screwdriver while typing...

--


Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Hugo Nebula" abuse@localhost wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:08:18 -0000, a particular chimpanzee named
"Mike" randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Hopefully this will be the one that breaks the camels back. Most people
fully approve building regs for structural work - the early parts - but
the
parts L. M and now P are pushing the system into disrepute. Some diy-ing
barrister will hopefully get a human rights violation judgement and this
whole nonsense will go on hold.


Some parts of AD E, H and J are a bit daft, too.

Well possibly in some cases - but at least the BCO should realise this and
allow an alternative.



Whatever happened to Part Q - Providing broadband to every new house?

The companies manufacturing broadband equipment pointed out that anything
installed now would be obsolete next week so don't bother. Most work on
VDSL in the UK is winding down and whether it's WiMax, satellite, laser or
whatever, a wireless solution will dominate broadband provision in due
course.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
As an aside, TLC were adamant that Part P will not come into
effect in
any way before 1st January 1996, not 1995.

Well, they're going to be a bit ****ed when it comes into force
from
the end of next month.

R4 has just confirmed this.

Which? 1996 or 1995?

'95

Is it just me living in a timewarp?
Better nip back into the tardis quickly...

I must have been fiddling with my sonic screwdriver while typing...

Is that a PPPoo one or a DeWalt ?

The companies manufacturing broadband equipment pointed out that anything
installed now would be obsolete next week so don't bother. Most work on
VDSL in the UK is winding down and whether it's WiMax, satellite, laser or
whatever, a wireless solution will dominate broadband provision in due
course.


Really?, What makes you think that then....
--
Tony Sayer

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:45:27 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

The companies manufacturing broadband equipment pointed out that anything
installed now would be obsolete next week so don't bother. Most work on
VDSL in the UK is winding down and whether it's WiMax, satellite, laser or
whatever, a wireless solution will dominate broadband provision in due
course.


Really?, What makes you think that then....


I don't think that there's huge value in satellite unless you are
doing bulk downloads or spanning large continents like Russia where
satellite is used for backup. For interactive use it's poor.

Wireless local loop is pretty good. I've had such a service for
about 5 years on the 3.6-4.2GHz band and it works pretty well.
I can have an ADSL equivalent at lowish cost, or 512k, 1Mb or 2Mb
asymmetrical or symmetrical contended at 50, 15 or 5 to 1.
At the moment, I'm using 1Mb symmetrical, 5:1 and from measurements it
does deliver that.

However, the equipment isn't cheap so the connection cost is
relatively high now - wasn't when I got it.

From the SP's point of view, the coverage works well. In my area,
there are base stations about every 5-8km and they can cover line of
sight - generally about 8km or a bit more.

I don't think that it's a solution for every situation, but it's
better than ADSL and cable modem.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
The companies manufacturing broadband equipment pointed out that anything
installed now would be obsolete next week so don't bother. Most work on
VDSL in the UK is winding down and whether it's WiMax, satellite, laser
or
whatever, a wireless solution will dominate broadband provision in due
course.


Really?, What makes you think that then....

I'm a consultant for many of those companies.

If WiMax gets the top end of the analogue TV bands as it will in the US and
some other places then it's a fairly done deal, otherwise laser solutions
could still succeed. And there is a round trip problem with satellite, it
is the best way to deliver huge amounts of data to lots of people. In
theory every non-video/music page on the Internet could be regularly
delivered to one's own private 'google' if you had a large enough hard
drive.