As per a recent thread, there are lots of negative comments about cheaper
biscuit jointers and the so-called good ones are too expensive for
occasional use. But I just noticed there are biscuit-cutter bits for routers
so wonder how they compare with the lower end of the biscuit cutter range.

As an example of a cutter for a router there is this at £7.49

http://www.screwfix.com/p/biscuit-jo...hank-4mm/91402

Are such cutter bits OK, at least where the cuts which have to be made are
parallel to a surface?

Such bits all seem to be too small to cut out the crescent shape of a
biscuit slot. How are they used in order to get the slot the right shape? Is
there some sort of template? If not enough wood is removed the biscuit won't
fit. If too much material is taken away the joint would be weakened. Surely
it's not supposed to be done by hand.

A low-price biscuit jointer at £33.50 is

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-S.../dp/B0021L95X4

Would it be fair to say that the lower-priced ones may have various issues
but are all of similar quality, all having usability issues that the owner
can work around? There are some at around £65 but I wonder if they would be
much different from the Silverline one (especially as it has been reduced).

James

"James Harris" wrote in message
...
As per a recent thread, there are lots of negative comments about cheaper
biscuit jointers and the so-called good ones are too expensive for
occasional use. But I just noticed there are biscuit-cutter bits for
routers so wonder how they compare with the lower end of the biscuit
cutter range.

As an example of a cutter for a router there is this at £7.49

http://www.screwfix.com/p/biscuit-jo...hank-4mm/91402

Are such cutter bits OK, at least where the cuts which have to be made are
parallel to a surface?

Such bits all seem to be too small to cut out the crescent shape of a
biscuit slot. How are they used in order to get the slot the right shape?
Is there some sort of template? If not enough wood is removed the biscuit
won't fit. If too much material is taken away the joint would be weakened.
Surely it's not supposed to be done by hand.

A low-price biscuit jointer at £33.50 is


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-S.../dp/B0021L95X4

Would it be fair to say that the lower-priced ones may have various issues
but are all of similar quality, all having usability issues that the owner
can work around? There are some at around £65 but I wonder if they would
be much different from the Silverline one (especially as it has been
reduced).

James


There's nothing you can't do much cheaper using dowels that a biscuit
jointer does.
And quicker. With tools most people have to hand
Waste of space.

On 04/09/2014 08:46, harryagain wrote:
"James Harris" wrote in message
...
As per a recent thread, there are lots of negative comments about cheaper
biscuit jointers and the so-called good ones are too expensive for
occasional use. But I just noticed there are biscuit-cutter bits for
routers so wonder how they compare with the lower end of the biscuit
cutter range.

As an example of a cutter for a router there is this at £7.49

http://www.screwfix.com/p/biscuit-jo...hank-4mm/91402

Are such cutter bits OK, at least where the cuts which have to be made are
parallel to a surface?

Such bits all seem to be too small to cut out the crescent shape of a
biscuit slot. How are they used in order to get the slot the right shape?
Is there some sort of template? If not enough wood is removed the biscuit
won't fit. If too much material is taken away the joint would be weakened.
Surely it's not supposed to be done by hand.

A low-price biscuit jointer at £33.50 is


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-S.../dp/B0021L95X4

Would it be fair to say that the lower-priced ones may have various issues
but are all of similar quality, all having usability issues that the owner
can work around? There are some at around £65 but I wonder if they would
be much different from the Silverline one (especially as it has been
reduced).

James


There's nothing you can't do much cheaper using dowels that a biscuit
jointer does.
And quicker. With tools most people have to hand
Waste of space.


Except that biscuit jointers allow for a bit of lateral imprecision
whereas holes for dowels need to be exactly at 90 degrees to the surface
being joined and they need to be accurately placed along its length. Not
so easy without a proper jig.

On 04/09/2014 08:46, harryagain wrote:
"James Harris" wrote in message
...
As per a recent thread, there are lots of negative comments about cheaper
biscuit jointers and the so-called good ones are too expensive for
occasional use. But I just noticed there are biscuit-cutter bits for
routers so wonder how they compare with the lower end of the biscuit
cutter range.

As an example of a cutter for a router there is this at £7.49

http://www.screwfix.com/p/biscuit-jo...hank-4mm/91402

Are such cutter bits OK, at least where the cuts which have to be made are
parallel to a surface?

Such bits all seem to be too small to cut out the crescent shape of a
biscuit slot. How are they used in order to get the slot the right shape?
Is there some sort of template? If not enough wood is removed the biscuit
won't fit. If too much material is taken away the joint would be weakened.
Surely it's not supposed to be done by hand.

A low-price biscuit jointer at £33.50 is


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-S.../dp/B0021L95X4

Would it be fair to say that the lower-priced ones may have various issues
but are all of similar quality, all having usability issues that the owner
can work around? There are some at around £65 but I wonder if they would
be much different from the Silverline one (especially as it has been
reduced).

James

As usual harry demonstrates his lack of knowledge on woodwork, however
lets clear up some of the misinformation.

There's nothing you can't do much cheaper using dowels that a biscuit
jointer does.

Firstly, dowels are not a replacement for biscuit joints - each have
pros and cons, but they have different applications.

The main difference is that dowels require precise alignment in two
axis, while biscuits allow a little latitude in one which makes assembly
and glue up far easier in many cases.

While its possible to do a dowel joint with nothing more than a brad
point bit and careful layout (or a spiked marking dowel), they are
generally best done with a proper jig if you need to do any number. The
commercial jigs are relatively expensive for a decent one. They are
relatively slow to cut, but produce a fairly strong joint that resists
loads in most directions (so long as you use at least a pair of them per
joint).

Biscuits produce a joint that is stronger in shear than dowels, but
generally weaker in other directions.

And quicker. With tools most people have to hand

No, very very much slower and that is the key difference.

For applications like fixing the alignment of edge joints, you can sink
five pairs of biscuit slots in about 40 secs the lot with the dedicated
machine.

Waste of space.

Harry's new sig?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 04/09/2014 08:46, harryagain wrote:
"James Harris" wrote in message
...
As per a recent thread, there are lots of negative comments about cheaper
biscuit jointers and the so-called good ones are too expensive for
occasional use. But I just noticed there are biscuit-cutter bits for
routers so wonder how they compare with the lower end of the biscuit
cutter range.

As an example of a cutter for a router there is this at £7.49

http://www.screwfix.com/p/biscuit-jo...hank-4mm/91402

Are such cutter bits OK, at least where the cuts which have to be made are
parallel to a surface?

Such bits all seem to be too small to cut out the crescent shape of a
biscuit slot. How are they used in order to get the slot the right shape?
Is there some sort of template? If not enough wood is removed the biscuit
won't fit. If too much material is taken away the joint would be weakened.
Surely it's not supposed to be done by hand.

A low-price biscuit jointer at £33.50 is


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-S.../dp/B0021L95X4

Would it be fair to say that the lower-priced ones may have various issues
but are all of similar quality, all having usability issues that the owner
can work around? There are some at around £65 but I wonder if they would
be much different from the Silverline one (especially as it has been
reduced).

James


There's nothing you can't do much cheaper using dowels that a biscuit
jointer does.
And quicker. With tools most people have to hand
Waste of space.


Personally I would go for the cheap biscuit jointer

On 04/09/2014 08:32, James Harris wrote:
As per a recent thread, there are lots of negative comments about cheaper
biscuit jointers and the so-called good ones are too expensive for
occasional use. But I just noticed there are biscuit-cutter bits for routers
so wonder how they compare with the lower end of the biscuit cutter range.

As an example of a cutter for a router there is this at £7.49

http://www.screwfix.com/p/biscuit-jo...hank-4mm/91402

Are such cutter bits OK, at least where the cuts which have to be made are
parallel to a surface?

I had a decent Trend made one of those, and flogged it on ebay after
getting the dedicated machine...

While it worked, I found there were a number of operational problems
with it that made it less than ideal

Such bits all seem to be too small to cut out the crescent shape of a
biscuit slot. How are they used in order to get the slot the right shape?

Yup that is the first problem - you need to plunge it in, then slide the
work/router to the side to make a wide enough slot.

Is
there some sort of template? If not enough wood is removed the biscuit won't
fit. If too much material is taken away the joint would be weakened. Surely
it's not supposed to be done by hand.

Its about the only way you can do it. Even when the right width the
radius of the ends will not match the biscuit that well IME. You cna
mark the edges of the travel required on the work, but its more time and
effort.

Other limitations - they are much easier (and safer) to use in a table
than handheld. Used handheld they are a liability (to you and the work)
since they need to be plunged and locked into position *below* the base
of the router. You then need to position the router on the edge of its
base plate such that you can then plunge the cutter sideways - if you
try to move the router into position in the normal way then you will
damage the work with the cutter. On several occasions I ended up tacking
a chunk out of the edge of my work getting the cutter into an out of
position. You also have the risk of an unguarded cutter hanging out the
router that you may not be able to withdraw back into the machine.

A low-price biscuit jointer at £33.50 is

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-S.../dp/B0021L95X4

Showing up at £45 here...

Would it be fair to say that the lower-priced ones may have various issues
but are all of similar quality, all having usability issues that the owner
can work around? There are some at around £65 but I wonder if they would be
much different from the Silverline one (especially as it has been reduced).

Only way to tell really is to buy it and see. My own experience with the
cheap SF "Ferm" one was there were certainly manufacturing quality
issues - I had to return my first one. The second was better but not
perfect, but it was good enough you can make allowances for its
shortcomings in setup.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 04/09/2014 08:32, James Harris wrote:

....

A low-price biscuit jointer at £33.50 is


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-S.../dp/B0021L95X4

Showing up at £45 here...

Here too. The price changed shortly after my post. As you can imagine, that
was somewhat annoying...!

Notably, the Tesco price also changed in exactly the same way, i.e. from
£33.50 to £45, at the same time. It may be a coincidence but perhaps not.
Possibly they both reacted to some external info such as a notification of
stock levels from Silverline.

James