Am thinking of having a go at making a large-ish wooden frame for a
print that She's just bought... can't believe the cost that she was
quoted to have it supplied framed.

I was thinking of buying some lengths of moulding from Wickes, mitring
the ends and sticking them together. Is that about it? My main concern
is getting the thing square - presumably the pros have special
jigs/cramps for this. Can it be done effectively in two stages. ie
gluing diagonal corners, letting them set, then doing the other two?

Any tips or experience welcomed!

David

On 04/06/2007 17:43, Lobster wrote:

Any tips or experience welcomed!

not suggsting you fork out £40 for this

http://www.details.co.uk/productdeta...prodgroupid=57

but the basic idea is to hold it tight with the strings/clamps and push
home the V-shaped nails, could you could use a smaller version of these
crinkly fasteners to do a similar job?

http://www.fastfixdirect.co.uk/code/...CategoryID=380

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Am thinking of having a go at making a large-ish wooden frame for a
print that She's just bought... can't believe the cost that she was
quoted to have it supplied framed.

I was thinking of buying some lengths of moulding from Wickes, mitring
the ends and sticking them together. Is that about it? My main concern
is getting the thing square - presumably the pros have special
jigs/cramps for this. Can it be done effectively in two stages. ie
gluing diagonal corners, letting them set, then doing the other two?

Any tips or experience welcomed!

David

When I make large frames I select the moulding,maybe a lenght of fancy dado
rail? I then get some 2" x 1/2" glue and pin this to the dados back.
I glue them both together before mitering or cutting to lenght.
With my trusty Sliding mitre saw I cut the lenghts to size and then the
angles at spot on 45 degrees.
I then use a biscuit jointer to cut slots in the frame backing corners for
the biscuits and if the angles are spot on then the frame will be true and
square when gluing and slotting together, with the aid of a set square I
align the joints for true corners.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
On 04/06/2007 17:43, Lobster wrote:

Any tips or experience welcomed!

not suggsting you fork out £40 for this

http://www.details.co.uk/productdeta...prodgroupid=57

but the basic idea is to hold it tight with the strings/clamps and push
home the V-shaped nails, could you could use a smaller version of these
crinkly fasteners to do a similar job?

http://www.fastfixdirect.co.uk/code/...ners&MainCateg
oryID=17&ProductCategoryID=380

Thats the worst type of framing together I have seen.

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Am thinking of having a go at making a large-ish wooden frame for a print
that She's just bought... can't believe the cost that she was quoted to
have it supplied framed.

I was thinking of buying some lengths of moulding from Wickes, mitring the
ends and sticking them together. Is that about it? My main concern is
getting the thing square - presumably the pros have special jigs/cramps
for this.

My cousin used to do picture framing and the main bit of gear was the corner
guillotine, which gave a very clean, accurate cut. Getting the lengths of
opposite sides exactly the same is, apparently, the most important bit.
Corners were held with corner clamps http://tooltray.com/List.asp?i=10562
and stapled, rather than glued.

Can it be done effectively in two stages. ie gluing diagonal corners,
letting them set, then doing the other two?

I bought a set of four plastic corners and a bit of string that would hold
the whole lot together quite cheaply from an ironmonger, many years ago. It
was much like the upper one here http://tooltray.com/List.asp?i=11185 and
worked very well.

Colin Bignell

On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 18:25:00 +0100, "nightjar" nightjar@insert my
surname here.uk.com wrote:

My cousin used to do picture framing and the main bit of gear was the corner
guillotine, which gave a very clean, accurate cut. Getting the lengths of
opposite sides exactly the same is, apparently, the most important bit.
Corners were held with corner clamps http://tooltray.com/List.asp?i=10562
and stapled, rather than glued.

One of the most cursed machines ever invented. My blood was always
decorating the blade. The sharpest blade I ever encountered. Never
felt it when cuting me. ((

having made frames in the past and found that they were hard to get
square. I reverted to using frames from Wilkinsons and IKEA, which I
have found to be much cheaper than you can make them. Sorry, so much
for DIY, but if you have either of these two establishments near you I
would suggest you take a look.

"Tim Decker" wrote in message
ups.com...
having made frames in the past and found that they were hard to get
square.

Heh!

If all sides are equal then squareness is no more than using a set square on
each corner.

Whats your other DIY skills like?

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Am thinking of having a go at making a large-ish wooden frame for a print
that She's just bought... can't believe the cost that she was quoted to
have it supplied framed.

I was thinking of buying some lengths of moulding from Wickes, mitring the
ends and sticking them together. Is that about it? My main concern is
getting the thing square - presumably the pros have special jigs/cramps
for this. Can it be done effectively in two stages. ie gluing diagonal
corners, letting them set, then doing the other two?

Any tips or experience welcomed!

I found it really easy to do.
The tricky bit is getting the sides equal in length so always cut the
opposites sides together in pairs.
That way if you are a few mm out the frame will still look square.

I just use those car ratchet ties to secure the frame after gluing. It does
a great job although you can get dedicated tools for it.
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...13224&ts=93655

http://www.clubframeco.com/ has all you need to know in its FAQ

http://www.lionpic.co.uk/

Steven.

On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:43:02 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

Am thinking of having a go at making a large-ish wooden frame for a
print that She's just bought... can't believe the cost that she was
quoted to have it supplied framed.

Get a quote for framing it. Framers are cheaper than print shops.

Also look at buying a ready-made frame from Hobbyworld, or else their
range of frame mouldings. They're actually a very good range and well
priced. They're almost certainly the best place to buy mounting board.

http://amol.org.au/recollections is a museum conservation web site with
good advice on matting and mounting. Searching Wikipedia for "Canons of
page construction" (renaissance typography) will give some useful advice
on laying out a matt too.

I was thinking of buying some lengths of moulding from Wickes,

Any mouldings other than real picture frame mouldings look terrible. Get
the good stuff -- or else make your own, if you have a router. Don't
make the back rebate too shallow either - commercial framers with flat
darts can work in less space than you can with pins.

mitring the ends and sticking them together. Is that about it?

Yes. Ideally mitre them with a chainsaw, then shave them accurately to
fit with a framer's guillotine. Good work always uses some sort of knife
edge to trim them after sawing oversize, not a crap fancy magic saw from
Happy Shopper. I have a guillotine (vast cast-iron thing), you can use a
block plane and a shooting block or you can use a very sharp paring
chisel and a couple of pencil lines drawn on a scrap of wood beneath.
Aim for about 44 1/2° acute -- you can hide a whisker of a gap on the
inside far more easily than the same gap on the outside.

For glue, you need something with high initial tack and strong shear
resistance. Titebond is good. PVA isn't.

For clamping, just use a well-supported _flat_ plywood layout board (or
the best dining table) and a string clamp around the outside. Make
yourself a set of corner blocks first - 3" MDF circles with a grooved
circumference and a smidgen less than a quarter sawn out. Face
everything relevant with plastic sticky tape, to avoid glue-up
accidents. Use a simple string loop windlass and a twisted stick to
tighten up. Measure both diagonals to check.

Cut the backing board (grey mounting card) to fit loosely inside the
rebate, then take it to the glazier as a pattern for cutting. Don't cut
the glass beforehand, or Sod's Law will bite you. Write "Return this, I
need it" prominently on one side! Don't cut it too tight though, unless
both you and the glazier are capable of working to that accuracy. It's
safer to actually give them a pattern piece 1mm-2mm undersize and to use
a wide rebate.

Glass is either 3mm or 2mm (usually to order) and is cheap. Make sure
it's not scratched! A good, careful glazier is getting hard to find (I
recommend Roman Glass on Stokes Croft, Bristol)

Any mouldings other than real picture frame mouldings look terrible.

Not necessarily, but architrave etc doesn't have a rebate, so you have
to to glue another section on the back. This can look ok if the added
bit forms a step on the outside.

Get
the good stuff -- or else make your own, if you have a router. Don't
make the back rebate too shallow either - commercial framers with flat
darts can work in less space than you can with pins.



mitring the ends and sticking them together. Is that about it?

Yes. Ideally mitre them with a chainsaw, then shave them accurately to
fit with a framer's guillotine. Good work always uses some sort of knife
edge to trim them after sawing oversize, not a crap fancy magic saw from
Happy Shopper.

The normal procedure with a Morso is to chop out larger mouldings in 2
or 3 ^ shaped cuts, finishing off with a fine cut on one edge.

http://www.framersequipment.co.uk/mo...guillotine.htm

The reason they're standard for retail picture framers is that they
don't create dust, and are foot operated to leave both hands free.
Factory setups tend to use double mitre saws, and you wouldn't want one
of those in your shopping trolley (unless you're Andy Hall).

For glue, you need something with high initial tack and strong shear
resistance. Titebond is good. PVA isn't.

Pva is fine. Commercial framers don't use glue at all but rely on the
underpinner for fixing.

For clamping, just use a well-supported _flat_ plywood layout board (or
the best dining table) and a string clamp around the outside. Make
yourself a set of corner blocks first - 3" MDF circles with a grooved
circumference and a smidgen less than a quarter sawn out. Face
everything relevant with plastic sticky tape, to avoid glue-up
accidents. Use a simple string loop windlass and a twisted stick to
tighten up. Measure both diagonals to check.

For a one-off clamp, pick up an old inner tube, cut to size, and use it
as a big rubber band. I used to glue up 6 sided frames that way. Leave
overnight and put the fixings in next day

Cut the backing board (grey mounting card) to fit loosely inside the
rebate, then take it to the glazier as a pattern for cutting. Don't cut
the glass beforehand, or Sod's Law will bite you. Write "Return this, I
need it" prominently on one side! Don't cut it too tight though, unless
both you and the glazier are capable of working to that accuracy. It's
safer to actually give them a pattern piece 1mm-2mm undersize and to use
a wide rebate.

Glass is either 3mm or 2mm (usually to order) and is cheap. Make sure
it's not scratched! A good, careful glazier is getting hard to find (I
recommend Roman Glass on Stokes Croft, Bristol) http://www.framersequipment.co.uk/mo...guillotine.htm

Non-reflective glass is worth paying a bit extra for.

On 5 Jun, 09:58, Stuart Noble wrote:

For glue, you need something with high initial tack and strong shear
resistance. Titebond is good. PVA isn't.

Pva is fine. Commercial framers don't use glue at all but rely on the
underpinner for fixing.

PVA has low shear resistance while wet, so it's harder to get the
clamps onto it without it going squiffy.

On 4 Jun, 22:10, "George" wrote:

If all sides are equal then squareness is no more than using a set square on
each corner.

Overall for the finished product, I care less about corner accuracy
and more about overall symmetry.

It's true that "Four 90° make a rectangle", but only true in error-
free geometry. Out in the real world we have to account for errors
too, and it's simple arithmetic / error analysis to show that
aggregating three inaccurate corners is likely to end up with very
poor overall accuracy. Measuring the diagonals though is easier (most
of us have better tape measures than goniometers) and it's a more
direct reading of the accuracy factor we most care about. As a result,
it gives better results when framing.

Andy Dingley wrote:

It's true that "Four 90° make a rectangle"

but only if the 4 sides are perfectly straight and square to start with.
With Wickes timber that may not be the case. The advantage with the
rubber band clamping method is that you can distribute the inaccuracies
over the 4 joints

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 5 Jun, 09:58, Stuart Noble wrote:

For glue, you need something with high initial tack and strong shear
resistance. Titebond is good. PVA isn't.
Pva is fine. Commercial framers don't use glue at all but rely on the
underpinner for fixing.

PVA has low shear resistance while wet, so it's harder to get the
clamps onto it without it going squiffy.


I used to use Ulmia mitre clips, which were applied with reverse pliers.

http://www.ulmia.de/English/Ulmia-Sc...sspannklammern

Very quick, and easy to manipulate the joints, but they did leave a
small gouge on the outside of the frame. Plenty of room to clean off the
glue though.