I am interested in starting to use biscuit jointing, as I like the
features I see so far.

As far as I've read, I noted they come in 3 sizes (there may be more
sizes, but they would appear be much less common in that case)

So, with regard to #0, #10 & #20 Which way do the sizes run through
that sequence? Is #0 largest or smallest, and where could I find the
specs and more detailed design info for this system?

Finally, has anyone tried "router bit" AND "dedicated machine" for
this and what benefits and losses are there to each approach over the
other?

Thanks for reading this. Any online info would be really helpful to
me.

Take Care,
Gnube

Gnube wrote:

I am interested in starting to use biscuit jointing, as I like the
features I see so far.

As far as I've read, I noted they come in 3 sizes (there may be more
sizes, but they would appear be much less common in that case)

So, with regard to #0, #10 & #20 Which way do the sizes run through
that sequence? Is #0 largest or smallest, and where could I find the
specs and more detailed design info for this system?

#0 is the smallest and #20 the largest. They are standard sizes -
although I don't know where the "standard" came from. Lamello (sp?)
possibly?

Finally, has anyone tried "router bit" AND "dedicated machine" for
this and what benefits and losses are there to each approach over the
other?

Yup - tried both. I started with the router bit set, and then got a
dedicated machine.

The slight advantage of the bit set in a router is it's a bit cheaper
(when I got mine, the dedicated jointers were a fair bit more expnsive
then they are now - plus I had not looked up the price of the Trend bit
set I bought before I ordered it!).

There are several downsides I found:

Hassle - if you are using the router for other tasks then you will find
a need to keep swapping bits. Also changing biscuit size means taking
the bit apart and swapping the bearing for one of the three different
size ones, and reassembling.

Width of cut - because the router bit is made small enough to pass
through the sole plate of most routers it does not cut a biscuit slot
wide enough for the bigger biscuits - hence you need to plunge in and
then slide the router to elongate the slot to the required width.

Angles - if you want a biscuit at an angle other than 90 deg then you
will need to make a wedge or jig to tilt the router.

I also found using a router hand held in this way was slightly unnatural
- you have to be careful to lower the bit into position but well away
from the jointing edge - then slide it in sideways. The first time I
used it I forgot this detail once and got a nice lump out of the top of
the bit of wood I was jointing! In a table however it is a bit more easy.

Hence I went for the Ferm jointer. The first one I got seemed a little
offset - the fence looked fine until you tightened it up. Then you found
the biscuit would end up approx 0.5mm lower on one side than the other.
So Screwfix swapped it for another one, which is fine.

It's much quicker and a more natural method than with the router I find
- set the depth you want on the thumb wheel, and just plunge it in. The
blade is wide enough to cut the correct width slot in one hit every time.

Having said all that I could see that if you had a router in a table
with the jointing bit, plus another handheld router for other tasks, the
bit set may work out quite well.

--
Cheers,

John.

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Laurie R wrote:

Sorry I thought you meant a biscuit cutter in a router.

I don't think you'd want to use a biscuit joiner either - the slot would be
far too narrow. You'd need to clear 1/2" minimum to accomodate the thinnest
laminate flooring plus its underlay, so would have to adjust the biscuit
joiner height several times for each inch or so of skirting perimeter. It
would also be pretty hard getting a straight edge and a ragged line would
look terrible.

Must admit I had not thought of trying that. It might work rather well
in practice!

Get a length of flooring and and lay it against the wall. Set the offset
on the jointer to the thickness of the underlay, and then plunge in and
slide it along the top of your bit of laminate. If the skirting is not
too thick, you could set the depth of cut so that you almost cut right
through the skirting in a single pass. Then just chip of the remaining
fillet of wood ready for insertion of the floor board.


--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 21:22:21 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Having said all that I could see that if you had a router in a table
with the jointing bit, plus another handheld router for other tasks, the
bit set may work out quite well.

Thanks John that has really helped me understand quite a bit more than
I knew about it before!

So it's depth of cut required (i.e. width of biscuit) and maybe length
of slot (i.e. length of biscuit) that changes across the 3 sizes and
the thickness presumably remains a constant reading between the lines?

As for the skirting board sub thread which has broken out, you lot
must be psychic, as it had crossed my mind, but I wondered if it might
be altogether too dangerous a proposition, but from what's said it
might be interesting to find out - I was mulling over a small cheapy
grinder and wondering what results that might offer too - but I am not
clear on how flush to the floor one could get with that - I need a
2mm+7mm gap (underlay and laminate) I think it was, and I have no idea
how close I could get to that with either method assuming they work at
all - nails have to be a worry in that situation and maybe the grinder
would be safer if there are any of those about! (quite probably I'd
imagine!)

That said I have pretty much resigned myself to new skirting now, as I
the chance to hide cable behind it in slots and stuff like that seems
a great move of convenience. Wondering about screwing them on, as a
future access feature though. (sods law says you'll need it if you
don't do it!) ;O)

Take Care,
Gnube

Gnube wrote:

So it's depth of cut required (i.e. width of biscuit) and maybe length
of slot (i.e. length of biscuit) that changes across the 3 sizes and
the thickness presumably remains a constant reading between the lines?

Yes that's right. The biscuits are all shaped with two curved edges

see picture he-

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...17591&ts=91060

the radius of these is the same regardless of the size of the biscuit,
and matches that of the cutter in the biscuit jointer. So when you
plunge the spinning disc into the wood it leaves a constant thickness
slot (4mm) that is deepest at the centre and tapers to nothing at both
edges. The biscuit then fits snugly in this slot.

As for the skirting board sub thread which has broken out, you lot
must be psychic, as it had crossed my mind, but I wondered if it might
be altogether too dangerous a proposition, but from what's said it
might be interesting to find out - I was mulling over a small cheapy
grinder and wondering what results that might offer too - but I am not

Not sure I fancy trying that with a grinder. The first problem is unlike
a biscuit jointer, there is no "fence" on a grinder. So you would have
nothing to control the depth of cut, or help the positioning and control
of the blade. Remember that these small grinders will spin the disc at
over 11,000 rpm. The last thing you need is a TCT toothed 4" disc
snatching an angle grinder out of your grip and throwing it at you!

clear on how flush to the floor one could get with that - I need a
2mm+7mm gap (underlay and laminate) I think it was, and I have no idea
how close I could get to that with either method assuming they work at

The biscuit jointer I have can place a slot within approx 3mm of its
sole plate at a guess...

all - nails have to be a worry in that situation and maybe the grinder
would be safer if there are any of those about! (quite probably I'd
imagine!)

There is a problem there, in that blades that make a nice job of wood
tend to be rather averse to nails and vice versa!

That said I have pretty much resigned myself to new skirting now, as I
the chance to hide cable behind it in slots and stuff like that seems
a great move of convenience. Wondering about screwing them on, as a
future access feature though. (sods law says you'll need it if you
don't do it!) ;O)

Maybe even Velcro ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:25:43 +0000, parish parish_AT_ntlworld.com
wrote:

Wouldn't hiring a door trimming saw be the solution to trimming
skirtings in-situ?

Never knew they existed! Looks a bit like where we were probably going
with the ideas too! ;O)

Take Care,
Gnube

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:57:50 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

see picture he-

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...17591&ts=91060

the radius of these is the same regardless of the size of the biscuit,
and matches that of the cutter in the biscuit jointer. So when you
plunge the spinning disc into the wood it leaves a constant thickness
slot (4mm) that is deepest at the centre and tapers to nothing at both
edges. The biscuit then fits snugly in this slot.

Right, got it now. Thanks!

Not sure I fancy trying that with a grinder. The first problem is unlike
a biscuit jointer, there is no "fence" on a grinder. So you would have
nothing to control the depth of cut, or help the positioning and control
of the blade. Remember that these small grinders will spin the disc at
over 11,000 rpm. The last thing you need is a TCT toothed 4" disc
snatching an angle grinder out of your grip and throwing it at you!

Well, I was anticipating building a fence/jig/sled of some sort for
it; I noticed that many have more than one position for mounting the
handle, and felt sure the right size bolt in those would have attached
whatever I dreamed up! I was more concerned at this stage as to
whether it would cut it or set fire to it by friction alone! ;O)

The biscuit jointer I have can place a slot within approx 3mm of its
sole plate at a guess...

I am really starting to like the sound of all this for when it's used
in it's more normal mode! ;O)

There is a problem there, in that blades that make a nice job of wood
tend to be rather averse to nails and vice versa!

And they tend to make their displeasure known in a rather violent
manner! Tools don't appear to understand the concept of "subtle"! ;O)

Maybe even Velcro ;-)

Tell me! ;O)

Hinges and push catches? (saves holding or homing the damn things
too!) Velcro would then be spare for holding in the open position
while you work! ;O)

Take Care,
Gnube

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:28:44 +0100, "Jonathan@Home"
wrote:

Wouldn't hiring a door trimming saw be the solution to trimming
skirtings in-situ?

Yep seen them in my HSS catalogue, I wasn't sure if it was just a fancy
bicsuit cutter. When I laid my floor I fitted new skirtings as the the old
one were realy guffed. I used one of those little vibrating saws, Ferm? to
trim off the bottoms of the door frames.

Are there no structural issues at all with doing that. I'm asking from
total ignorance but I am wary there might be repercussions as there
always are!

I can't see it holding any building up of course, but it sure seems it
must then rely on any other fixings within it's own structure more
heavily if you're cutting it's feet out from under it so to speak.


Take Care,
Gnube

Gnube wrote:

whatever I dreamed up! I was more concerned at this stage as to
whether it would cut it or set fire to it by friction alone! ;O)

You would have to use a TCT biscuit jointing blade rather than then
normal abrasive discs I would have thought.... Just try to avoid any nails!

e.g.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/default.asp?part=240008


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/