How easy would it be for someone with limited plumbing skills (I've added an
outside tap, and re-routed a few pipes before now) to move a toilet....
about 8 inches to one side? I feel confident about doing the water
supply/over flow bits, but it's the soil pipe that worries me. Currently the
soil pipe comes straight out the back of the toilet, through the wall, along
a couple feet of pipe, and into the main stack. I want to reposition the
toilet to one side making it closer to the stack.

What's the best way? Would I be better off getting a plumber to do this for
me (against the spirit of the group I know, but would save me dealing with a
pipe smelling of poo ), and how much should I expect to pay for such a
job?

TIA

--
/Slugsie

[sorry, forgot this bit...]

The floor in the bathroom is going to be tiled soon, is it better to sit the
toilet on top of the tiles, or tile round the toilet?

--
/Slugsie

Slugsie wrote:
[sorry, forgot this bit...]

The floor in the bathroom is going to be tiled soon, is it better to
sit the toilet on top of the tiles, or tile round the toilet?

In my opinion its best to tile under the toilet if poss..

Regarding your proposed toilet move.
Moving a toilet I find one of the more difficult diy jobs.
If the stack and pipework are cast iron it increases the difficulty;
although you can get clamp on adaptors to connect plastic waste pipe to cast
iron and they do allow some lateral movement.
You need to work out if, with a new hole for the pipe, there are suitable
couplers/bends to reconnect to the remaining outside sloping pipe easily.
You may have to use a swiveling adaptor.
The push in pan connectors also allow a few degrees of adjustment.

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:55:13 +0100, "Slugsie" wrote:

How easy would it be for someone with limited plumbing skills (I've added an
outside tap, and re-routed a few pipes before now) to move a toilet....
about 8 inches to one side? I feel confident about doing the water
supply/over flow bits, but it's the soil pipe that worries me. Currently the
soil pipe comes straight out the back of the toilet, through the wall, along
a couple feet of pipe, and into the main stack. I want to reposition the
toilet to one side making it closer to the stack.

What's the best way?

You don't say whether the stack is plastic or cast iron. I guess
that since it's an outside one, it's more likely to be cast iron,
depending on the age of the property.

At any rate, moving the pan closer to the stack involves shortening
the run of pipe outside (obviously). How easy that will be to do
will depend on the angle. If the pipe only has a fairly gentle
slope, you may be able to get away with just pulling it out of the
stack, shortening it and replacing it at a very slightly steeper
angle. There is a small amount of flexibility, but not a huge
amount.

You may find it worthwhile to use a piece of PVC pipe to replace the
cast iron (if that's what it is) for the short run.


Otherwise if the angle is relatively steep, moving the pan by 8 inches
in a two foot run will make a big difference. In this case the pipe
would have to join the stack at a higher point, which obviously means
more surgery. To be honest, if it comes to this, it is probably
worth replacing the stack with a PVC one and redoing the connections.
The materials are cheap and much easier to work with than cast iron.
If you go this route, and the pipe is cast iron, there is a fair
chance that the underground drains are salt-glaze earthenware. If
possible, try to remove the iron pipe carefully to avoid breaking the
collar of the underground pipe. However, it's not completely
horrendous if you do, because there are repair couplers made of
flexible rubber or plastic material which will provide a good
connection into the underground pipe itself.


Would I be better off getting a plumber to do this for
me (against the spirit of the group I know, but would save me dealing with a
pipe smelling of poo ), and how much should I expect to pay for such a
job?

TIA

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:59:40 +0100, "Slugsie" wrote:

[sorry, forgot this bit...]

The floor in the bathroom is going to be tiled soon, is it better to sit the
toilet on top of the tiles, or tile round the toilet?

You should tile first and then put the pan on top.

a) it looks better and

b) if you ever need to change the pan and it has a different shaped
pedestal, you won't have a problem.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:55:13 +0100, "Slugsie" wrote:

You don't say whether the stack is plastic or cast iron. I guess
that since it's an outside one, it's more likely to be cast iron,
depending on the age of the property.

[I always forget some details, sorry]
The house is 120 odd years old, but the bathroom is part of an extension
built within the last 25 years, and so the pipework is all plastic.

At any rate, moving the pan closer to the stack involves shortening
the run of pipe outside (obviously). How easy that will be to do
will depend on the angle. If the pipe only has a fairly gentle
slope, you may be able to get away with just pulling it out of the
stack, shortening it and replacing it at a very slightly steeper
angle. There is a small amount of flexibility, but not a huge
amount.

The sloping pipe is about 20" (from centers), with a slope of only a few
inches. Do I take it then I'm looking at drilling a new hole in the wall,
and shortening the sloping pipe?

--
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"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:59:40 +0100, "Slugsie" wrote:

You should tile first and then put the pan on top.


That's what I thought, but wasn't sure if it was the recommended method or
not. Thanks

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"BillR" wrote in message
...

You've got it. I'd recommend hiring a diamond corer for the hole esp in an
older property.
This will have a very clean breakout.
The tricky bit, after doing the above, is connecting the shorter sloping
pipe to the new outlet; but there will be some adaptor(s) that should do
it


Silly question time...

Is it possible/feasible/practicle/stupid to use the chunk of masonry that is
cut out from the new hole to fill in the old hole?

As I said, the wall is fairly new, and the brickwork is in good condition.
I've never used a corer before, so no idea what you get left with.

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On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:24:01 +0100, "Slugsie" wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:55:13 +0100, "Slugsie" wrote:

You don't say whether the stack is plastic or cast iron. I guess
that since it's an outside one, it's more likely to be cast iron,
depending on the age of the property.

[I always forget some details, sorry]
The house is 120 odd years old, but the bathroom is part of an extension
built within the last 25 years, and so the pipework is all plastic.

Oh good, then that helps.


At any rate, moving the pan closer to the stack involves shortening
the run of pipe outside (obviously). How easy that will be to do
will depend on the angle. If the pipe only has a fairly gentle
slope, you may be able to get away with just pulling it out of the
stack, shortening it and replacing it at a very slightly steeper
angle. There is a small amount of flexibility, but not a huge
amount.

The sloping pipe is about 20" (from centers), with a slope of only a few
inches. Do I take it then I'm looking at drilling a new hole in the wall,
and shortening the sloping pipe?

Basically yes.

The trick is going to be getting the geometry right.

First of all, the tiling is going to raise the height of the pan by
(say) half an inch, possibly a bit less depending on what you are
doing. If you are tiling onto a boarded floor, and suspect any
movement, it's common to put down a sheet of ply and to tile onto
that, which of course will add to the height as well.

Secondly, the pan is going closer to the stack, so if you think about
the angles, the pipe outside will be lower at the new position than
the existing.

The first step would of course be to make a new hole or extend the
existing one sideways and make good. You could hire a core drill if
you like the idea of a really neat hole.

You would need to measure or simulate the new height of the pan
accounting for the tiling and possible ply flooring.

I can think of several ways to realign everything.

a) Use a flexible pan connector. e.g. Screwfix 17529
You need enough depth behind the pan to accommodate one of these and
IMHO they look a bit naff and amateurish.

b) Use an adjustable bend. e.g. Screwfix 50087
This would probably be the bend taking the short run of pipe outside
through the wall and would be a neater looking solution assuming it
works mechanically.

c) Raise the height of the stack slightly to bring the short run of
pipe into correct alignment with the new hole.
This could be done with a short length of soil pipe and a connector
e.g. Screwfix 14551

d) Similar to (c) and neater, possibly even cheaper, replace the
section of stack below the branch, raising the height.

The pipe can be cut easily with a hand saw. It will fit the sockets
more easily if you debur and slightly taper the cut ends.
Silicone lubricant can be used to help get the pipe past the rubber
seals, or just as effectively, some washing up liquid.

This isn't the highest on my list of pleasant jobs, but is not as
disgusting and pongy as you might imagine. If you thoroughly clean
the pan before you start and put down some scented disinfectant or
bleach before you start it will help. A plastic bag taped over the
pan spigot isn't a bad idea either since there will still be water in
the pan, although you could bale that out.

Given what you have, this is not a difficult DIY job and you will have
learned about making big holes through walls neatly and working with
PVC soil pipe. Any likely problem is easily and cheaply fixable, so
this is not a high risk project.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:08:28 +0100, "Slugsie" wrote:

"BillR" wrote in message
...

You've got it. I'd recommend hiring a diamond corer for the hole esp in an
older property.
This will have a very clean breakout.
The tricky bit, after doing the above, is connecting the shorter sloping
pipe to the new outlet; but there will be some adaptor(s) that should do
it


Silly question time...

Is it possible/feasible/practicle/stupid to use the chunk of masonry that is
cut out from the new hole to fill in the old hole?

As I said, the wall is fairly new, and the brickwork is in good condition.
I've never used a corer before, so no idea what you get left with.

Sometimes you can be lucky and the core stays intact, but don't count
on it.

It can be a better solution to chop out the bricks at the mortar
junctions and put in new bricks.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...


First of all, the tiling is going to raise the height of the pan by
(say) half an inch, possibly a bit less depending on what you are
doing. If you are tiling onto a boarded floor, and suspect any
movement, it's common to put down a sheet of ply and to tile onto
that, which of course will add to the height as well.

I'm working on the height of the pan being raised by about an inch.

Secondly, the pan is going closer to the stack, so if you think about
the angles, the pipe outside will be lower at the new position than
the existing.

Higher surely?


I can think of several ways to realign everything.

b) Use an adjustable bend. e.g. Screwfix 50087
This would probably be the bend taking the short run of pipe outside
through the wall and would be a neater looking solution assuming it
works mechanically.

I think this option sounds the easiest.


The pipe can be cut easily with a hand saw.

The soil pipe is right in a corner, so access for sawing won't be good, but
still possible.

This isn't the highest on my list of pleasant jobs, but is not as
disgusting and pongy as you might imagine. If you thoroughly clean
the pan before you start and put down some scented disinfectant or
bleach before you start it will help. A plastic bag taped over the
pan spigot isn't a bad idea either since there will still be water in
the pan, although you could bale that out.

Given what you have, this is not a difficult DIY job and you will have
learned about making big holes through walls neatly and working with
PVC soil pipe. Any likely problem is easily and cheaply fixable, so
this is not a high risk project.


Thanks for all the info, I feel fairly confident to tackle this job now.

--
/Slugsie
-=+Team ToolFox+=-
[paul_at_slugsie_dot_co_dot_uk]

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 22:20:53 +0100, "Slugsie" wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .


First of all, the tiling is going to raise the height of the pan by
(say) half an inch, possibly a bit less depending on what you are
doing. If you are tiling onto a boarded floor, and suspect any
movement, it's common to put down a sheet of ply and to tile onto
that, which of course will add to the height as well.

I'm working on the height of the pan being raised by about an inch.

Secondly, the pan is going closer to the stack, so if you think about
the angles, the pipe outside will be lower at the new position than
the existing.

Higher surely?

Unless I've misunderstood you, the pipe is currently about 20" long
and slopes downwards towards the stack, yes?

At a point 8" closer to the stack than at present, it will be lower,
won't it.?




I can think of several ways to realign everything.

b) Use an adjustable bend. e.g. Screwfix 50087
This would probably be the bend taking the short run of pipe outside
through the wall and would be a neater looking solution assuming it
works mechanically.

I think this option sounds the easiest.

My only reservation is that it's an £8 investment and won't be easy to
tell if it will do the job until you try it.



The pipe can be cut easily with a hand saw.

The soil pipe is right in a corner, so access for sawing won't be good, but
still possible.

The other option may be to unplug the pipe sections...


This isn't the highest on my list of pleasant jobs, but is not as
disgusting and pongy as you might imagine. If you thoroughly clean
the pan before you start and put down some scented disinfectant or
bleach before you start it will help. A plastic bag taped over the
pan spigot isn't a bad idea either since there will still be water in
the pan, although you could bale that out.

Given what you have, this is not a difficult DIY job and you will have
learned about making big holes through walls neatly and working with
PVC soil pipe. Any likely problem is easily and cheaply fixable, so
this is not a high risk project.


Thanks for all the info, I feel fairly confident to tackle this job now.

Good.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Secondly, the pan is going closer to the stack, so if you think about
the angles, the pipe outside will be lower at the new position than
the existing.

Higher surely?

Unless I've misunderstood you, the pipe is currently about 20" long
and slopes downwards towards the stack, yes?

At a point 8" closer to the stack than at present, it will be lower,
won't it.?


Sorry, my misunderstanding, I thought you meant the pipe would *need to be*
lower to connect at the new position.

--
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