Hello
This is probably an imposable question to answer, but I'll ask anyway.
I will be moving to a house that has no central heating (apart from warm air
which I will be taking out).
What I was needing to know is, What is a decent make of boiler these days? I
was thinking along the lines of Potterton/Ideal/Glow worm?
I will be looking for wall hung, condensing, good efficiency. Not Combi, for
a 4 bedroom house. vented fully pumped system.
Any clue to a good make/model/range to start looking at. I think I would be
prepared to spend about £1000 for a good reliable boiler.
Regards, Will

Willi said

Hello
This is probably an imposable question to answer, but I'll ask anyway.
I will be moving to a house that has no central heating (apart from
warm air which I will be taking out). What I was needing to know is,
What is a decent make of boiler these days? I was thinking along the
lines of Potterton/Ideal/Glow worm? I will be looking for wall hung,
condensing, good efficiency. Not Combi, for a 4 bedroom house. vented
fully pumped system. Any clue to a good make/model/range to start
looking at. I think I would be prepared to spend about #1000 for a
good reliable boiler. Regards, Will

Under the sales of goods act I would suggest that any fridge should
last 6 years at least. So I would expect the same from boilers.
So as a corgi tradesman has to put it in I would buy it off him and
blaim him if it goes wrong.

--
zaax

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 01:09:58 +0100, zaax wrote
(in article ):

Willi said

Hello
This is probably an imposable question to answer, but I'll ask anyway.
I will be moving to a house that has no central heating (apart from
warm air which I will be taking out). What I was needing to know is,
What is a decent make of boiler these days? I was thinking along the
lines of Potterton/Ideal/Glow worm? I will be looking for wall hung,
condensing, good efficiency. Not Combi, for a 4 bedroom house. vented
fully pumped system. Any clue to a good make/model/range to start
looking at. I think I would be prepared to spend about #1000 for a
good reliable boiler. Regards, Will

Under the sales of goods act I would suggest that any fridge should
last 6 years at least. So I would expect the same from boilers.
So as a corgi tradesman has to put it in I would buy it off him and
blaim him if it goes wrong.



The Sale of Goods Act does not say that an item should last for 6 years.

There is a statutory period of 6 years (statute of limitations) for recourse
to the supplier if there is a problem with goods or services purchased. It
does not guarantee in any way that the supplier will do anything about it.
For that purpose, if it eventually becomes a court matter, a test of
reasonableness will be applied.

Andy Hall said

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 01:09:58 +0100, zaax wrote
(in article ):

Willi said

Hello
This is probably an imposable question to answer, but I'll ask
anyway. I will be moving to a house that has no central heating
(apart from warm air which I will be taking out). What I was
needing to know is, What is a decent make of boiler these days? I
was thinking along the lines of Potterton/Ideal/Glow worm? I will
be looking for wall hung, condensing, good efficiency. Not Combi,
for a 4 bedroom house. vented fully pumped system. Any clue to a
good make/model/range to start looking at. I think I would be
prepared to spend about #1000 for a good reliable boiler.
Regards, Will

Under the sales of goods act I would suggest that any fridge should
last 6 years at least. So I would expect the same from boilers.
So as a corgi tradesman has to put it in I would buy it off him and
blaim him if it goes wrong.



The Sale of Goods Act does not say that an item should last for 6
years.

There is a statutory period of 6 years (statute of limitations) for
recourse to the supplier if there is a problem with goods or services
purchased. It does not guarantee in any way that the supplier will
do anything about it. For that purpose, if it eventually becomes a
court matter, a test of reasonableness will be applied.

Recourse to the seller.

I would suggest that it would be reasonable for a professionally
installed system to last at six years.

--
zaax

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 20:08:17 +0100, zaax wrote
(in article ):

Andy Hall said

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 01:09:58 +0100, zaax wrote
(in article ):

Willi said

Hello
This is probably an imposable question to answer, but I'll ask
anyway. I will be moving to a house that has no central heating
(apart from warm air which I will be taking out). What I was
needing to know is, What is a decent make of boiler these days? I
was thinking along the lines of Potterton/Ideal/Glow worm? I will
be looking for wall hung, condensing, good efficiency. Not Combi,
for a 4 bedroom house. vented fully pumped system. Any clue to a
good make/model/range to start looking at. I think I would be
prepared to spend about #1000 for a good reliable boiler.
Regards, Will

Under the sales of goods act I would suggest that any fridge should
last 6 years at least. So I would expect the same from boilers.
So as a corgi tradesman has to put it in I would buy it off him and
blaim him if it goes wrong.



The Sale of Goods Act does not say that an item should last for 6
years.

There is a statutory period of 6 years (statute of limitations) for
recourse to the supplier if there is a problem with goods or services
purchased. It does not guarantee in any way that the supplier will
do anything about it. For that purpose, if it eventually becomes a
court matter, a test of reasonableness will be applied.

Recourse to the seller.

I would suggest that it would be reasonable for a professionally
installed system to last at six years.



That would depend on the product installed and the price paid.

If I had paid top whack for a Viessmann boiler, high quality installation and
so forth then I would go for every pound of flesh if it came to it.
I would be likely to prevail in any litigation because the manufacturer and
supplier would have little argument that this wasn't a top of the market
purchase
However, given that purchasing decision, it is unlikely that the situation
would arise, or that there would be enough margin in the deal that the
installer and the manufacturer could provide proper customer service.

OTOH, if I buy a Ravenheat and cheapest possible install then I would be less
confident of the outcome because a reasonableness test would position the
outlay a lot lower.

Another way of looking at it is insurance. In the mid range people do buy
insurance,. On a pure cost basis it makes no sense and they will pay way
over the odds over the product life. However, if the objective is to avoid
dealing with problems and the cost of so doing is high, the economics change.

Personally I find that the best outcome doesn't come from buying on capital
price paid but on negotiating the best customer service for the price paid.
This roughly translates to not beating down to the lowest price but in
response expecting that the supplier does what they say they will do. Then
if they don't, the 16 ton weight descends. It is very difficult for a
supplier to defend a situation of doing less than they agreed at the outset.

On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 21:10:41 +0100, Willi wrote:

Hello
This is probably an imposable question to answer, but I'll ask anyway.
I will be moving to a house that has no central heating (apart from warm air
which I will be taking out).
What I was needing to know is, What is a decent make of boiler these days? I
was thinking along the lines of Potterton/Ideal/Glow worm?
I will be looking for wall hung, condensing, good efficiency. Not Combi, for
a 4 bedroom house. vented fully pumped system.
Any clue to a good make/model/range to start looking at. I think I would be
prepared to spend about £1000 for a good reliable boiler.
Regards, Will

Worcester-Bosch & Vaillant have good reputations for reasonably-priced
kit

Gloworm & Ideal may also be OK

Potterton/Baxi have ground to make up on their reputation from past
products (and the way they've handled problems with them) so, other
things being equal, I'd avoid them.

For general criteria see Ed's boiler choice FAQ

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 23:57:39 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 21:10:41 +0100, Willi wrote:

Hello
This is probably an imposable question to answer, but I'll ask anyway.
I will be moving to a house that has no central heating (apart from warm air
which I will be taking out).
What I was needing to know is, What is a decent make of boiler these days? I
was thinking along the lines of Potterton/Ideal/Glow worm?
I will be looking for wall hung, condensing, good efficiency. Not Combi, for
a 4 bedroom house. vented fully pumped system.
Any clue to a good make/model/range to start looking at. I think I would be
prepared to spend about £1000 for a good reliable boiler.
Regards, Will

Worcester-Bosch & Vaillant have good reputations for reasonably-priced
kit

Gloworm & Ideal may also be OK

Potterton/Baxi have ground to make up on their reputation from past
products (and the way they've handled problems with them) so, other
things being equal, I'd avoid them.

For general criteria see Ed's boiler choice FAQ

I note that Baxi who swallowed MAIN some while ago are now badging the
boiler as MAIN. The product is identical (AFAICT) to a Potterton model.
I guess they may eventually run out of reputable names.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

In message .uk, Ed
Sirett writes

Worcester-Bosch & Vaillant have good reputations for reasonably-priced
kit

Gloworm & Ideal may also be OK

Potterton/Baxi have ground to make up on their reputation from past
products (and the way they've handled problems with them) so, other
things being equal, I'd avoid them.

For general criteria see Ed's boiler choice FAQ

I note that Baxi who swallowed MAIN some while ago are now badging the
boiler as MAIN. The product is identical (AFAICT) to a Potterton model.
I guess they may eventually run out of reputable names.

The British Leyland syndrome ...

--
geoff

The message
from raden contains these words:

I note that Baxi who swallowed MAIN some while ago are now badging the
boiler as MAIN. The product is identical (AFAICT) to a Potterton model.
I guess they may eventually run out of reputable names.

The British Leyland syndrome ...

Hmm, Windscale - Seascale - what's next?

DSS, DHSS, DWP -

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Guy King wrote:

DSS, DHSS, DWP -

Wrong order: the DHSS became the DSS when someone realised it wasn't
very healthy. Similarly the EEC became the EC when it dawned that it
wasn't all that economical...

--
Andy

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news
For general criteria see Ed's boiler choice FAQ

Avoid that. It is 20 years out of date.

"Willi" wrote in message
...
Hello
This is probably an imposable question to answer, but I'll ask anyway.
I will be moving to a house that has no central heating (apart from warm
air which I will be taking out).

Wrong move. Johnson & Starley have some superb replacement forced air units
with electrostatic air filters, modulating burners and fans and very quiet.
They also cool by moving air in summer. And no rads. You can also add
outside air ventilation too.

What I was needing to know is, What is a decent make of boiler these days?
I was thinking along the lines of Potterton/Ideal/

Bad boilers.

Glow worm?

The condenser is good, made by Vaillant.

I will be looking for wall hung, condensing, good efficiency. Not Combi,
for a 4 bedroom house. vented fully pumped system.

......are you a member of the flat earth society as well?

Any clue to a good make/model/range to start looking at. I think I would
be prepared to spend about £1000 for a good reliable boiler.
Regards, Will

Spend more. Viessmann, Eco-Hometec, Atmos, Etag, Quantum and Geminox.

I will be looking for wall hung, condensing, good efficiency. Not Combi,
for a 4 bedroom house. vented fully pumped system.

.....are you a member of the flat earth society as well?

Dr Drivel
Can i ask what makes you say that? Are you saying you would rather have a
Combi?
I will consider all options. (but not warm air, however good they are now).
What are the advantages of a Combi? I guess space as a hot water tank is not
required, but what are the others?
Regards, Will

In article ,
Willi wrote:
.....are you a member of the flat earth society as well?

Dr Drivel
Can i ask what makes you say that?

He hails from the planet Zog where only combis are allowed and the bath
hasn't been invented.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, try management *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
Willi wrote:

.....are you a member of the flat earth society as well?

Dr Drivel
Can i ask what makes you say that?

He

It's a shame isn't it. Care in the community has failed.

"Willi" wrote in message
...

I will be looking for wall hung, condensing, good efficiency. Not Combi,
for a 4 bedroom house. vented fully pumped system.

.....are you a member of the flat earth society as well?

Dr Drivel
Can i ask what makes you say that?

It is not 1972 anymore.

Are you saying you would rather have a Combi?

Yep. They can deliver high flows and no cylinders or water tanks.

I will consider all options. (but not warm air, however good they are
now).

They are good and you don't consider? Sounds Irish. Oh That is racist, so
sounds err, well any race you don't like. Do you wear flared pants as well?

What are the advantages of a Combi? I guess space as a hot water tank is
not required,

Yep.

but what are the others?

No cold tank.
Less pipe work.
Mains pressure showers, so no silly power shower pump.
You never run out hot water.
Can stay in the shower for ever.
Equal pressure at all taps, so mixers can be easily installed everywhere.
Instant hot water at all times.
etc,
etc,

I am not a jolly amateur. Come back if you have any more queries.

I will be looking for wall hung, condensing, good efficiency. Not Combi,
for a 4 bedroom house. vented fully pumped system.

.....are you a member of the flat earth society as well?

Dr Drivel
Can i ask what makes you say that?

It is not 1972 anymore.

Are you saying you would rather have a Combi?

Yep. They can deliver high flows and no cylinders or water tanks.

I will consider all options. (but not warm air, however good they are
now).

They are good and you don't consider? Sounds Irish. Oh That is racist, so
sounds err, well any race you don't like. Do you wear flared pants as
well?

What are the advantages of a Combi? I guess space as a hot water tank is
not required,

Yep.

but what are the others?

No cold tank.
Less pipe work.
Mains pressure showers, so no silly power shower pump.
You never run out hot water.
Can stay in the shower for ever.
Equal pressure at all taps, so mixers can be easily installed everywhere.
Instant hot water at all times.
etc,
etc,

I am not a jolly amateur. Come back if you have any more queries.

Sounds intresting.
With regards to this bit "Mains pressure showers, so no silly power shower
pump"

How does the system hold up, when someone is having a shower, the heating is
on & maybe someone is running the hot tap in the kitchen. This is all
hypertheticail of course. I'm just trying to think of the hardest thing the
system would have to do (or be asked to do). Or put simply. "Would it cope"
?
Regards, Will

In article ,
Willi wrote:
How does the system hold up, when someone is having a shower, the
heating is on & maybe someone is running the hot tap in the kitchen.
This is all hypertheticail of course. I'm just trying to think of the
hardest thing the system would have to do (or be asked to do). Or put
simply. "Would it cope"

Dribble conveniently forgets that many parts of the country have rather
poor mains water pressure in an attempt to reduce leaks.

Best thing is to measure the flow at the kitchen tap and ask again. Time
how long it takes to fill say a 10 litre container. However, if all water
comes from the mains it's not just a second hot tap that will effect the
flow, but cold water ones too.

--
*Be more or less specific *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Willi" wrote in message
...


I will be looking for wall hung, condensing, good efficiency. Not Combi,
for a 4 bedroom house. vented fully pumped system.

.....are you a member of the flat earth society as well?

Dr Drivel
Can i ask what makes you say that?

It is not 1972 anymore.

Are you saying you would rather have a Combi?

Yep. They can deliver high flows and no cylinders or water tanks.

I will consider all options. (but not warm air, however good they are
now).

They are good and you don't consider? Sounds Irish. Oh That is racist,
so sounds err, well any race you don't like. Do you wear flared pants as
well?

What are the advantages of a Combi? I guess space as a hot water tank is
not required,

Yep.

but what are the others?

No cold tank.
Less pipe work.
Mains pressure showers, so no silly power shower pump.
You never run out hot water.
Can stay in the shower for ever.
Equal pressure at all taps, so mixers can be easily installed everywhere.
Instant hot water at all times.
etc,
etc,

I am not a jolly amateur. Come back if you have any more queries.

Sounds intresting.
With regards to this bit "Mains pressure showers, so no silly power shower
pump"

How does the system hold up, when someone is having a shower, the heating
is on & maybe someone is running the hot tap in the kitchen. This is all
hypertheticail of course. I'm just trying to think of the hardest thing
the system would have to do (or be asked to do). Or put simply. "Would it
cope" ?

Firstly, like any mains pressure system, the mains have to give pressure and
flow. This needs to be measured but timing bucket fro the kitchen tap, in
litres per minute.

If the mains are poor it is well worth getting it replaced to a larger bore.
Once done it is done for ever.

A dedicated 22mm pipe is taken from the stoptap to the combi inlet. A tee at
the stop and then all cold outlets from this. Once a decent mains pressure
and, piped properly then no problems.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Are you saying you would rather have a Combi?

Yep. They can deliver high flows and no cylinders or water tanks.

The 'high flow' is in relation to other combis. Not in comparison to even
the most weedy of storage systems. Unless, of course, you intend spending
about 5000 quid on a combi and installation.

--
*You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Are you saying you would rather have a Combi?

Yep. They can deliver high flows and no cylinders or water tanks.

The 'high flow'

A shame isn't it. He put high pressure taps in on a low pressure system.
Sad isn't it.

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 22:32:06 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

No cold tank.

So what, cold tanks are a useful reserve when some prat floods out the
neighbourhood by the misuse of a junior hacksaw.

Less pipe work.

Not really, in most houses it amounts to a couple of metres of 22mm to
the coil, 3 metres of mains pressure 15mm cold feed and about 3 metres
of 22mm for the hot tank feed. 30 minutes installation at the most.

Mains pressure showers, so no silly power shower pump.

As long as you like lukewarm/scalding/freezing/lukewarm repeat ad
infinitum showers

You never run out hot water.

Probably because you don't have any in the first place

Can stay in the shower for ever.

Some people wish you would

Equal pressure at all taps, so mixers can be easily installed everywhere.

Mixer taps are the spawn of the devil, liked by the French who never
use taps (and stink) and the Germans who could make a tap last 1000
years that would be incapable of filling a bath in less than 999 years

Instant hot water at all times.

Instant lukewarm dribble is more correct.

I am not a jolly amateur.

No, you are a failed plumbing counter assistant who flooded out 3
London boroughs because of a incident with a junior hacksaw.


--

"Matt" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 22:32:06 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

No cold tank.

So what, cold tanks are a useful reserve

Matt, I have not had a water cut for countless years - oh one for 10
minutes.

cut Matt drivel

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 21:20:13 +0100, Willi wrote:



I will be looking for wall hung, condensing, good efficiency. Not Combi,
for a 4 bedroom house. vented fully pumped system.

.....are you a member of the flat earth society as well?

Dr Drivel
Can i ask what makes you say that? Are you saying you would rather have a
Combi?
I will consider all options. (but not warm air, however good they are now).
What are the advantages of a Combi? I guess space as a hot water tank is not
required, but what are the others?
Regards, Will

It's probably time you had a look at the boiler choice FAQ and the heating
section of the main FAQ.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 21:20:13 +0100, Willi wrote:



I will be looking for wall hung, condensing, good efficiency. Not Combi,
for a 4 bedroom house. vented fully pumped system.

.....are you a member of the flat earth society as well?

Dr Drivel
Can i ask what makes you say that? Are you saying you would rather have a
Combi?
I will consider all options. (but not warm air, however good they are
now).
What are the advantages of a Combi? I guess space as a hot water tank is
not
required, but what are the others?
Regards, Will

It's probably time you had a look at the boiler choice FAQ and the heating
section of the main FAQ.

I would say give it a miss as it's 20 years out of date. Get it updated.

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:37:29 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:


"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 21:20:13 +0100, Willi wrote:



I will be looking for wall hung, condensing, good efficiency. Not Combi,
for a 4 bedroom house. vented fully pumped system.

.....are you a member of the flat earth society as well?

Dr Drivel
Can i ask what makes you say that? Are you saying you would rather have a
Combi?
I will consider all options. (but not warm air, however good they are
now).
What are the advantages of a Combi? I guess space as a hot water tank is
not
required, but what are the others?
Regards, Will

It's probably time you had a look at the boiler choice FAQ and the heating
section of the main FAQ.

I would say give it a miss as it's 20 years out of date. Get it updated.

You have made this comment several times of late.
I would be happy to update the FAQ if you could be more specific. To put
it another way which aspects of domestic heating technology that have
changed in the last 20 years are not covered in the BoilerChoice FAQ?
Is there something which is so glaringly wrong it needs correcting?

If, however, as many might suspect, you are simply slating the FAQ for not
over-whelmingly endorsing combis then the FAQ will stand as it is.
Both the main FAQ and the Boiler Choice FAQ set out arguments for and
against and explain the matter is not an open and shut case.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

I will be looking for wall hung, condensing, good efficiency. Not Combi,
for a 4 bedroom house. vented fully pumped system.

.....are you a member of the flat earth society as well?

Dr Drivel
Can i ask what makes you say that? Are you saying you would rather have a
Combi?
I will consider all options. (but not warm air, however good they are
now).
What are the advantages of a Combi? I guess space as a hot water tank is
not
required, but what are the others?
Regards, Will

It's probably time you had a look at the boiler choice FAQ and the heating
section of the main FAQ.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he
http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

Thanks for all your reply's. All are very interesting. I can see basically
what the differences & pro's & cons are now of the different system types.
In a nutshell " You have give me all the clues"
Thanks all.
Regards, Will