Hi,

I had new double glazed windows installed yesterday and I noticed that the
glass panel in two of them is crooked in the frame. On an opening window it
is lower on the hinged side. It is similiarling lop-sided in a non-opening
window.

The fitter tells me that this is necessary to allow for "settling" and is
called "heal and toeing", but if this is correct then surely the other
windows (which are level in their frames) must be wrong.

I think he is spinning me a yarn. What do you think?

TIA,
Derek.

DiddyS wrote:
Hi,

I had new double glazed windows installed yesterday and I noticed
that the glass panel in two of them is crooked in the frame. On an
opening window it is lower on the hinged side. It is similiarling
lop-sided in a non-opening window.

The fitter tells me that this is necessary to allow for "settling"
and is called "heal and toeing", but if this is correct then surely
the other windows (which are level in their frames) must be wrong.

I think he is spinning me a yarn. What do you think?

The panels themselves are likely to be square. If the frames are square too,
then the panels can be easily aligned. Settling? Never heard of it.
Problems might arise if they've screwed the frame in so it's not square.
Measure the diagonals to see if this is the case.

DiddyS wrote:
Hi,

I had new double glazed windows installed yesterday and I noticed that the
glass panel in two of them is crooked in the frame. On an opening window it
is lower on the hinged side. It is similiarling lop-sided in a non-opening
window.

The fitter tells me that this is necessary to allow for "settling" and is
called "heal and toeing", but if this is correct then surely the other
windows (which are level in their frames) must be wrong.

I think he is spinning me a yarn. What do you think?

Yup. The whole point of 'heeling and toeing' is to firmly wedge the
glass sealed unit within the opening part of the window frame, to
PREVENT what might be termed 'settling'... the idea is that the sealed
unit is rigidly mounted to the window frame, bit like a splint, to stop
it from distorting. A uPVC frame without a sealed unit is very weak,
and can easily distort several mm in any direction, certainly enough to
prevent the window from closing in the future. Heeling and toeing is
always done with the window closed, so the frame is 'fixed' in the
correct position.

David

Lobster wrote:
DiddyS wrote:
I had new double glazed windows installed yesterday and I noticed that
the glass panel in two of them is crooked in the frame. On an opening
window it is lower on the hinged side. It is similiarling lop-sided in
a non-opening window.

The fitter tells me that this is necessary to allow for "settling" and
is called "heal and toeing", but if this is correct then surely the
other windows (which are level in their frames) must be wrong.

I think he is spinning me a yarn. What do you think?

Yup. The whole point of 'heeling and toeing' is to firmly wedge the
glass sealed unit within the opening part of the window frame, to
PREVENT what might be termed 'settling'... the idea is that the sealed
unit is rigidly mounted to the window frame, bit like a splint, to stop
it from distorting. A uPVC frame without a sealed unit is very weak,
and can easily distort several mm in any direction, certainly enough to
prevent the window from closing in the future. Heeling and toeing is
always done with the window closed, so the frame is 'fixed' in the
correct position.

But this is all wrong! The glazing panel *must not* be used as a
structural component, as this will cause premature failure.

On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 06:31:42 GMT, "DiddyS"
wrote:

Hi,

I had new double glazed windows installed yesterday and I noticed that the
glass panel in two of them is crooked in the frame. On an opening window it
is lower on the hinged side. It is similiarling lop-sided in a non-opening
window.

The fitter tells me that this is necessary to allow for "settling" and is
called "heal and toeing", but if this is correct then surely the other
windows (which are level in their frames) must be wrong.

I think he is spinning me a yarn. What do you think?

TIA,
Derek.

Sounds like he just ran out of spacers and couldn't be bothered to get
any.

EricP wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 06:31:42 GMT, "DiddyS"
wrote:


Hi,

I had new double glazed windows installed yesterday and I noticed that the
glass panel in two of them is crooked in the frame. On an opening window it
is lower on the hinged side. It is similiarling lop-sided in a non-opening
window.

The fitter tells me that this is necessary to allow for "settling" and is
called "heal and toeing", but if this is correct then surely the other
windows (which are level in their frames) must be wrong.

I think he is spinning me a yarn. What do you think?

TIA,
Derek.


Sounds like he just ran out of spacers and couldn't be bothered to get
any.

Sounds more like he only had one per frame, which he tried to position
centrally, and he got that wrong too. Get them back. It's a 5 minute job.
When you hear the term "settle" or "settle down" from plumbers,
builders, car mechanics etc, take it to mean the job's not right but
they've run out of time and want paying anyway.

"DiddyS" wrote in message
.uk...
Hi,

I had new double glazed windows installed yesterday and I noticed that the
glass panel in two of them is crooked in the frame. On an opening window
it is lower on the hinged side. It is similiarling lop-sided in a
non-opening window.

The fitter tells me that this is necessary to allow for "settling" and is
called "heal and toeing", but if this is correct then surely the other
windows (which are level in their frames) must be wrong.

I think he is spinning me a yarn. What do you think?

TIA,
Derek.


Hi folks,

Thanks for all the info. I've got them to sort it out this morning.

Derek.

On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 11:21:01 GMT, Stuart Noble
wrote:

EricP wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 06:31:42 GMT, "DiddyS"
wrote:


Hi,

I had new double glazed windows installed yesterday and I noticed that the
glass panel in two of them is crooked in the frame. On an opening window it
is lower on the hinged side. It is similiarling lop-sided in a non-opening
window.

The fitter tells me that this is necessary to allow for "settling" and is
called "heal and toeing", but if this is correct then surely the other
windows (which are level in their frames) must be wrong.

I think he is spinning me a yarn. What do you think?

What about if you hear the same term from a
lawyer,doctor,surgeon,estate agent or quantity surveyor-or are they
above reproach?

I'd advise a trip to http://www.thewindowman.com


TIA,
Derek.


Sounds like he just ran out of spacers and couldn't be bothered to get
any.

Sounds more like he only had one per frame, which he tried to position
centrally, and he got that wrong too. Get them back. It's a 5 minute job.
When you hear the term "settle" or "settle down" from plumbers,
builders, car mechanics etc, take it to mean the job's not right but
they've run out of time and want paying anyway.




Remove antispam and add 670 after bra to email

On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 16:21:40 +0100, tarquinlinbin
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 11:21:01 GMT, Stuart Noble
wrote:

EricP wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 06:31:42 GMT, "DiddyS"
wrote:


Hi,

I had new double glazed windows installed yesterday and I noticed that the
glass panel in two of them is crooked in the frame. On an opening window it
is lower on the hinged side. It is similiarling lop-sided in a non-opening
window.

The fitter tells me that this is necessary to allow for "settling" and is
called "heal and toeing", but if this is correct then surely the other
windows (which are level in their frames) must be wrong.

I think he is spinning me a yarn. What do you think?

What about if you hear the same term from a
lawyer,doctor,surgeon,estate agent or quantity surveyor-or are they
above reproach?

I'd advise a trip to http://www.thewindowman.com


TIA,
Derek.


Sounds like he just ran out of spacers and couldn't be bothered to get
any.

Sounds more like he only had one per frame, which he tried to position
centrally, and he got that wrong too. Get them back. It's a 5 minute job.
When you hear the term "settle" or "settle down" from plumbers,
builders, car mechanics etc, take it to mean the job's not right but
they've run out of time and want paying anyway.
What about if you hear the same term from a
lawyer,doctor,surgeon,estate agent or quantity surveyor-or are they
above reproach?

I'd advise a trip to http://www.thewindowman.com

opps that should be www.thewindowman.co.uk








Remove antispam and add 670 after bra to email




Remove antispam and add 670 after bra to email

On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 15:16:12 GMT, "DiddyS"
wrote:


"DiddyS" wrote in message
o.uk...
Hi,

I had new double glazed windows installed yesterday and I noticed that the
glass panel in two of them is crooked in the frame. On an opening window
it is lower on the hinged side. It is similiarling lop-sided in a
non-opening window.

The fitter tells me that this is necessary to allow for "settling" and is
called "heal and toeing", but if this is correct then surely the other
windows (which are level in their frames) must be wrong.

I think he is spinning me a yarn. What do you think?

TIA,
Derek.


Hi folks,

Thanks for all the info. I've got them to sort it out this morning.

Derek.

Good for you!
)

Chris Bacon wrote:
Lobster wrote:

DiddyS wrote:

I had new double glazed windows installed yesterday and I noticed
that the glass panel in two of them is crooked in the frame. On an
opening window it is lower on the hinged side. It is similiarling
lop-sided in a non-opening window.

The fitter tells me that this is necessary to allow for "settling"
and is called "heal and toeing", but if this is correct then surely
the other windows (which are level in their frames) must be wrong.

I think he is spinning me a yarn. What do you think?


Yup. The whole point of 'heeling and toeing' is to firmly wedge the
glass sealed unit within the opening part of the window frame, to
PREVENT what might be termed 'settling'... the idea is that the sealed
unit is rigidly mounted to the window frame, bit like a splint, to
stop it from distorting. A uPVC frame without a sealed unit is very
weak, and can easily distort several mm in any direction, certainly
enough to prevent the window from closing in the future. Heeling and
toeing is always done with the window closed, so the frame is 'fixed'
in the correct position.


But this is all wrong! The glazing panel *must not* be used as a
structural component, as this will cause premature failure.

Are you disgreeing that the sealed unit imparts stiffness to the opener
(ie, and is intended to do so?)??

David

The message
from Lobster contains these words:

Are you disgreeing that the sealed unit imparts stiffness to the opener
(ie, and is intended to do so?)??

It better bloody do, I'm working on that assumption in the design of my
cedar frames for the conservatory.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Lobster wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Lobster wrote:
The whole point of 'heeling and toeing' is to firmly wedge the
glass sealed unit within the opening part of the window frame, to
PREVENT what might be termed 'settling'... the idea is that the
sealed unit is rigidly mounted to the window frame, bit like a
splint, to stop it from distorting. A uPVC frame without a sealed
unit is very weak, and can easily distort several mm in any
direction, certainly enough to prevent the window from closing in the
future. Heeling and toeing is always done with the window closed, so
the frame is 'fixed' in the correct position.

But this is all wrong! The glazing panel *must not* be used as a
structural component, as this will cause premature failure.

Are you disgreeing that the sealed unit imparts stiffness to the opener
(ie, and is intended to do so?)??

I am not disagreeing that the unit can impart stiffness (or rigidity) -
however, normal ones are not intended to do this. There may be units
that are.

Guy King wrote:
The message from Lobster contains these words:
Are you disgreeing that the sealed unit imparts stiffness to the opener
(ie, and is intended to do so?)??

It better bloody do, I'm working on that assumption in the design of my
cedar frames for the conservatory.

Stressing the units is well known to cause premature failure.

The message
from Chris Bacon contains these words:

Stressing the units is well known to cause premature failure.

I'm amazed. uPVC units without glass in them are quite floppy.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Stuart Noble
saying something like:

When you hear the term "settle" or "settle down" from plumbers,
builders, car mechanics etc, take it to mean the job's not right but
they've run out of time and want paying anyway.

********. There are plenty of instances where materials need to bed in
and be re-adjusted as necessary.
--

Dave