I guess I am. I do not have some of the things mentioned here that some
"poor" people have ...........

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09...says-most.html

I guess if I just gave more of my income in taxes...........

Steve

On 2011-09-14, Steve B wrote:
I guess I am. I do not have some of the things mentioned here that some
"poor" people have ...........

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09...says-most.html

I guess if I just gave more of my income in taxes...........

My guess would be that you have cable TV, air conditioning, computers,
but no video game system. Right or wrong?

i

"Ignoramus6900" wrote in message
...
On 2011-09-14, Steve B wrote:
I guess I am. I do not have some of the things mentioned here that some
"poor" people have ...........

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09...says-most.html

I guess if I just gave more of my income in taxes...........

My guess would be that you have cable TV, air conditioning, computers,
but no video game system. Right or wrong?

i

Correct. I play 888 poker occasionally, and have $512,000 now, but only in
play dollars. As for game systems, I just don't have the time. I do play
pool from 15-60 minutes daily, though. Regulation table. And I'm not going
to pay what they want for a game system or those games. I'll buy more beer
brewing equipment or tools or materials.

Steve

On 9/13/2011 10:01 PM, Steve B wrote:
lid wrote in message
...
On 2011-09-14, Steve wrote:
I guess I am. I do not have some of the things mentioned here that some
"poor" people have ...........

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09...says-most.html

I guess if I just gave more of my income in taxes...........

My guess would be that you have cable TV, air conditioning, computers,
but no video game system. Right or wrong?

i

Correct. I play 888 poker occasionally, and have $512,000 now, but only in
play dollars. As for game systems, I just don't have the time. I do play
pool from 15-60 minutes daily, though. Regulation table. And I'm not going
to pay what they want for a game system or those games. I'll buy more beer
brewing equipment or tools or materials.

Steve



very odd. I don't have AC, I don't have cable TV, I don't have a wide
screen TV, so I must be poor - the fact that I don't actually want these
things, or that I don't feel that they are worth the cost seems to not
matter? or is the heritage foundation saying that the poor really
aren't poor?

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:40:29 -0700, Bill
wrote:

On 9/13/2011 10:01 PM, Steve B wrote:
lid wrote in message
...
On 2011-09-14, Steve wrote:
I guess I am. I do not have some of the things mentioned here that some
"poor" people have ...........

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09...says-most.html

I guess if I just gave more of my income in taxes...........

My guess would be that you have cable TV, air conditioning, computers,
but no video game system. Right or wrong?

i

Correct. I play 888 poker occasionally, and have $512,000 now, but only in
play dollars. As for game systems, I just don't have the time. I do play
pool from 15-60 minutes daily, though. Regulation table. And I'm not going
to pay what they want for a game system or those games. I'll buy more beer
brewing equipment or tools or materials.

Steve



very odd. I don't have AC, I don't have cable TV, I don't have a wide
screen TV, so I must be poor - the fact that I don't actually want these
things, or that I don't feel that they are worth the cost seems to not
matter? or is the heritage foundation saying that the poor really
aren't poor?

Same here. TV comes in via antenna to an elderly 21" CRT tv

I do have a stereo ($10 at a second hand store) DVD player ($5) VCR ($5)
TV in the bedroom (antenna), 3 computers, 2 laptops, no video games, no
games on my computer(s)

The last time I turned on a TV was...Friday IRRC. Stereo (FM) has been
running most of the time since.

Ive got a couple radios out in the shop.

I do have a swamp cooler. But I live in the desert. Thank Crom its
starting to cool off a little.

So Im poor as hell!

VBG

Gunner

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:40:29 -0700, Bill
wrote:

On 9/13/2011 10:01 PM, Steve B wrote:
lid wrote in message
...
On 2011-09-14, Steve wrote:
I guess I am. I do not have some of the things mentioned here that
some
"poor" people have ...........

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09...says-most.html

I guess if I just gave more of my income in taxes...........

My guess would be that you have cable TV, air conditioning, computers,
but no video game system. Right or wrong?

i

Correct. I play 888 poker occasionally, and have $512,000 now, but only
in
play dollars. As for game systems, I just don't have the time. I do
play
pool from 15-60 minutes daily, though. Regulation table. And I'm not
going
to pay what they want for a game system or those games. I'll buy more
beer
brewing equipment or tools or materials.

Steve



very odd. I don't have AC, I don't have cable TV, I don't have a wide
screen TV, so I must be poor - the fact that I don't actually want these
things, or that I don't feel that they are worth the cost seems to not
matter? or is the heritage foundation saying that the poor really
aren't poor?

Same here. TV comes in via antenna to an elderly 21" CRT tv

I do have a stereo ($10 at a second hand store) DVD player ($5) VCR ($5)
TV in the bedroom (antenna), 3 computers, 2 laptops, no video games, no
games on my computer(s)

The last time I turned on a TV was...Friday IRRC. Stereo (FM) has been
running most of the time since.

Ive got a couple radios out in the shop.

I do have a swamp cooler. But I live in the desert. Thank Crom its
starting to cool off a little.

So Im poor as hell!


While I likely could *afford* the "luxuries" mentioned, I don't allow morons
to dictate where I spend my money. The very notion that TV is one of the
requirements for a happy life is nothing short of BS. I question the
sanity of *anyone* that permits an entity to sell them a signal that is
loaded with paid advertising----especially when the advertising is likely
better than the programming that it buys. I can't get interested in either
of them, quite frankly.

Do I have a TV?

Yep, I do. But, there's no way in hell I'm going to shell out more than
$30/month, endlessly, for the garbage they put on the tube these days.

I get two stations, one a PBS, the other, Fox. I watch 60 Minutes on the
computer, at my convenience.

I'm with you, Gunner. Our stereo (and listening to FM) gets the best
workout, and it's worth every penny it cost.

Harold

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
news
Do I have a TV?

Yep, I do. But, there's no way in hell I'm going to shell out more than
$30/month, endlessly, for the garbage they put on the tube these days.

I get two stations, one a PBS, the other, Fox. I watch 60 Minutes on the
computer, at my convenience.

I'm with you, Gunner. Our stereo (and listening to FM) gets the best
workout, and it's worth every penny it cost.

Harold

Same here, all the tv shows i want to watch are available for free on the
internet or broadcast. Quit going to the movies when they raised the price
of admission to $1. Cook all my meals fresh, no processed food for me
and no restaurants.

Best Regards
Tom.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 08:20:51 GMT, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:40:29 -0700, Bill
wrote:

On 9/13/2011 10:01 PM, Steve B wrote:
lid wrote in message
...
On 2011-09-14, Steve wrote:
I guess I am. I do not have some of the things mentioned here that
some
"poor" people have ...........

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09...says-most.html

I guess if I just gave more of my income in taxes...........

My guess would be that you have cable TV, air conditioning, computers,
but no video game system. Right or wrong?

i

Correct. I play 888 poker occasionally, and have $512,000 now, but only
in
play dollars. As for game systems, I just don't have the time. I do
play
pool from 15-60 minutes daily, though. Regulation table. And I'm not
going
to pay what they want for a game system or those games. I'll buy more
beer
brewing equipment or tools or materials.

Steve



very odd. I don't have AC, I don't have cable TV, I don't have a wide
screen TV, so I must be poor - the fact that I don't actually want these
things, or that I don't feel that they are worth the cost seems to not
matter? or is the heritage foundation saying that the poor really
aren't poor?

Same here. TV comes in via antenna to an elderly 21" CRT tv

I do have a stereo ($10 at a second hand store) DVD player ($5) VCR ($5)
TV in the bedroom (antenna), 3 computers, 2 laptops, no video games, no
games on my computer(s)

The last time I turned on a TV was...Friday IRRC. Stereo (FM) has been
running most of the time since.

Ive got a couple radios out in the shop.

I do have a swamp cooler. But I live in the desert. Thank Crom its
starting to cool off a little.

So Im poor as hell!


While I likely could *afford* the "luxuries" mentioned, I don't allow morons
to dictate where I spend my money. The very notion that TV is one of the
requirements for a happy life is nothing short of BS. I question the
sanity of *anyone* that permits an entity to sell them a signal that is
loaded with paid advertising----especially when the advertising is likely
better than the programming that it buys. I can't get interested in either
of them, quite frankly.

Do I have a TV?

Yep, I do. But, there's no way in hell I'm going to shell out more than
$30/month, endlessly, for the garbage they put on the tube these days.

I get two stations, one a PBS, the other, Fox. I watch 60 Minutes on the
computer, at my convenience.

I'm with you, Gunner. Our stereo (and listening to FM) gets the best
workout, and it's worth every penny it cost.

Harold


Oh..I pay $4.99 a month for Giganews and acess it via my cellphone
hooked up to my computer. Cellphone is $65 a month but its unlimited
service/web/data.


--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 08:20:51 GMT, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:

While I likely could *afford* the "luxuries" mentioned, I don't allow morons
to dictate where I spend my money. The very notion that TV is one of the
requirements for a happy life is nothing short of BS.

My electric bill went up to $51 last month due to a/c usage, and I'm
worth every penny. I'm hot and tired when I come home and need respite
from the near 100F temps if I'm going to get up and do it again the
next day.

I, too, refuse to let morons dictate where I spend my funds, and was
not happy to send off yet another $550 check to the IRS this week
toward next year's taxes. The gov't seems to think that since we pay
taxes, they can waste the money on frivolous bull****.
I think our country would do _much_ better with about 3/4 fewer gov't
employees and 3/4 fewer (mostly redandant) programs.

http://www.akdart.com/pork.html
http://www.akdart.com/grichar.html
http://www.google.com/search?q=what+...re+superfluous
This last search nets us 13,100,000 hits alone.


I question the
sanity of *anyone* that permits an entity to sell them a signal that is
loaded with paid advertising----especially when the advertising is likely
better than the programming that it buys. I can't get interested in either
of them, quite frankly.

Har! I think you're right about the ad quality vs the programming,
but both suck the big one.


Do I have a TV?

Yep, I do. But, there's no way in hell I'm going to shell out more than
$30/month, endlessly, for the garbage they put on the tube these days.

I get two stations, one a PBS, the other, Fox. I watch 60 Minutes on the
computer, at my convenience.

I'm with you, Gunner. Our stereo (and listening to FM) gets the best
workout, and it's worth every penny it cost.

I don't listen to or watch broadcast radio or TV in my house any
longer, and I'm happier for it. I save $80 a month and don't have to
listen to inane commercials 24/7.

--
Self-development is a higher duty than self-sacrifice.
-- Elizabeth Cady Stanton

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:40:29 -0700, Bill
wrote:

On 9/13/2011 10:01 PM, Steve B wrote:
lid wrote in message
...
On 2011-09-14, Steve wrote:
I guess I am. I do not have some of the things mentioned here that
some
"poor" people have ...........

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09...says-most.html

I guess if I just gave more of my income in taxes...........

My guess would be that you have cable TV, air conditioning, computers,
but no video game system. Right or wrong?

i

Correct. I play 888 poker occasionally, and have $512,000 now, but only
in
play dollars. As for game systems, I just don't have the time. I do
play
pool from 15-60 minutes daily, though. Regulation table. And I'm not
going
to pay what they want for a game system or those games. I'll buy more
beer
brewing equipment or tools or materials.

Steve



very odd. I don't have AC, I don't have cable TV, I don't have a wide
screen TV, so I must be poor - the fact that I don't actually want these
things, or that I don't feel that they are worth the cost seems to not
matter? or is the heritage foundation saying that the poor really
aren't poor?

Same here. TV comes in via antenna to an elderly 21" CRT tv

I do have a stereo ($10 at a second hand store) DVD player ($5) VCR ($5)
TV in the bedroom (antenna), 3 computers, 2 laptops, no video games, no
games on my computer(s)

The last time I turned on a TV was...Friday IRRC. Stereo (FM) has been
running most of the time since.

Ive got a couple radios out in the shop.

I do have a swamp cooler. But I live in the desert. Thank Crom its
starting to cool off a little.

So Im poor as hell!


While I likely could *afford* the "luxuries" mentioned, I don't allow morons
to dictate where I spend my money. The very notion that TV is one of the
requirements for a happy life is nothing short of BS. I question the
sanity of *anyone* that permits an entity to sell them a signal that is
loaded with paid advertising----especially when the advertising is likely
better than the programming that it buys. I can't get interested in either
of them, quite frankly.

Do I have a TV?

Yep, I do. But, there's no way in hell I'm going to shell out more than
$30/month, endlessly, for the garbage they put on the tube these days.

I get two stations, one a PBS, the other, Fox. I watch 60 Minutes on the
computer, at my convenience.

I'm with you, Gunner. Our stereo (and listening to FM) gets the best
workout, and it's worth every penny it cost.

Harold

Don't get too used to your "free" broadcast tv/radio, broadcast is dying
since they have not found a new business model that will work in this
age of competition. You can readily see the death-twitching in the flood
of scam advertising (colon cleanser scam, work from home scam, payday
loans, etc.) that broadcasters would never have accepted in the past.
Now they are desperate for ad revenue and will accept anything, which
only drives away move viewers/listeners. The consolidation of broadcast
to a few big companies cut overhead and bought them some time, but soon
even that will not help ad revenues meet operating expenses and stations
will be going dark.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 13:35:49 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:40:29 -0700, Bill
wrote:

On 9/13/2011 10:01 PM, Steve B wrote:
lid wrote in message
...
On 2011-09-14, Steve wrote:
I guess I am. I do not have some of the things mentioned here that
some
"poor" people have ...........

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09...says-most.html

I guess if I just gave more of my income in taxes...........

My guess would be that you have cable TV, air conditioning, computers,
but no video game system. Right or wrong?

i

Correct. I play 888 poker occasionally, and have $512,000 now, but only
in
play dollars. As for game systems, I just don't have the time. I do
play
pool from 15-60 minutes daily, though. Regulation table. And I'm not
going
to pay what they want for a game system or those games. I'll buy more
beer
brewing equipment or tools or materials.

Steve



very odd. I don't have AC, I don't have cable TV, I don't have a wide
screen TV, so I must be poor - the fact that I don't actually want these
things, or that I don't feel that they are worth the cost seems to not
matter? or is the heritage foundation saying that the poor really
aren't poor?

Same here. TV comes in via antenna to an elderly 21" CRT tv

I do have a stereo ($10 at a second hand store) DVD player ($5) VCR ($5)
TV in the bedroom (antenna), 3 computers, 2 laptops, no video games, no
games on my computer(s)

The last time I turned on a TV was...Friday IRRC. Stereo (FM) has been
running most of the time since.

Ive got a couple radios out in the shop.

I do have a swamp cooler. But I live in the desert. Thank Crom its
starting to cool off a little.

So Im poor as hell!


While I likely could *afford* the "luxuries" mentioned, I don't allow morons
to dictate where I spend my money. The very notion that TV is one of the
requirements for a happy life is nothing short of BS. I question the
sanity of *anyone* that permits an entity to sell them a signal that is
loaded with paid advertising----especially when the advertising is likely
better than the programming that it buys. I can't get interested in either
of them, quite frankly.

Do I have a TV?

Yep, I do. But, there's no way in hell I'm going to shell out more than
$30/month, endlessly, for the garbage they put on the tube these days.

I get two stations, one a PBS, the other, Fox. I watch 60 Minutes on the
computer, at my convenience.

I'm with you, Gunner. Our stereo (and listening to FM) gets the best
workout, and it's worth every penny it cost.

Harold

Don't get too used to your "free" broadcast tv/radio, broadcast is dying
since they have not found a new business model that will work in this
age of competition. You can readily see the death-twitching in the flood
of scam advertising (colon cleanser scam, work from home scam, payday
loans, etc.) that broadcasters would never have accepted in the past.
Now they are desperate for ad revenue and will accept anything, which
only drives away move viewers/listeners. The consolidation of broadcast
to a few big companies cut overhead and bought them some time, but soon
even that will not help ad revenues meet operating expenses and stations
will be going dark.

It would depend on the market. Here in Bakersfield area..we have a
number of good, strong local radio stations that dont advertise the
bull**** products. Neither do our 4 TV stations.


--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

"Pete C." wrote:

Don't get too used to your "free" broadcast tv/radio, broadcast is dying
since they have not found a new business model that will work in this
age of competition. You can readily see the death-twitching in the flood
of scam advertising (colon cleanser scam, work from home scam, payday
loans, etc.) that broadcasters would never have accepted in the past.
Now they are desperate for ad revenue and will accept anything, which
only drives away move viewers/listeners. The consolidation of broadcast
to a few big companies cut overhead and bought them some time, but soon
even that will not help ad revenues meet operating expenses and stations
will be going dark.


Then you've never heard any of the scam medical ads on early radio?
The boarder blasters were the worst. XERF ran lots of ads for 'medical
services' that were illegal in the United States. Just bring your money
across the boarder for some quack can do worthless surgery on you in an
unsanitary environment! Other ads were for quack medical devices and
scams that would have made 'Bigmouth Billy, the dead screaming pitch man
blush.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On 9/14/2011 8:57 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Don't get too used to your "free" broadcast tv/radio, broadcast is dying
since they have not found a new business model that will work in this
age of competition. You can readily see the death-twitching in the flood
of scam advertising (colon cleanser scam, work from home scam, payday
loans, etc.) that broadcasters would never have accepted in the past.
Now they are desperate for ad revenue and will accept anything, which
only drives away move viewers/listeners. The consolidation of broadcast
to a few big companies cut overhead and bought them some time, but soon
even that will not help ad revenues meet operating expenses and stations
will be going dark.



perhaps you have heard of a thing called "public radio", in which
willing participants pay their radio station? No advertisers required,
and the ones in my local area at least receive virtually no government
support. I guess that's not conservative enough for you guys though,
what with people voluntarily paying for content, yet allowing some
others to have the content as well, without paying. Maybe when the
republicans own the country they can confiscate the airwaves and
eliminate our right to listen to radio that we choose to pay for - that
would be good for business, I imagine - steal from the public and give
to your friends in exchange for money contributed to your election campaign.

--
For a $5 dollar donation today you get credit for $10 with HIM

a friend wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Don't get too used to your "free" broadcast tv/radio, broadcast is dying
since they have not found a new business model that will work in this
age of competition. You can readily see the death-twitching in the flood
of scam advertising (colon cleanser scam, work from home scam, payday
loans, etc.) that broadcasters would never have accepted in the past.
Now they are desperate for ad revenue and will accept anything, which
only drives away move viewers/listeners. The consolidation of broadcast
to a few big companies cut overhead and bought them some time, but soon
even that will not help ad revenues meet operating expenses and stations
will be going dark.



perhaps you have heard of a thing called "public radio", in which
willing participants pay their radio station? No advertisers required,
and the ones in my local area at least receive virtually no government
support. I guess that's not conservative enough for you guys though,
what with people voluntarily paying for content, yet allowing some
others to have the content as well, without paying. Maybe when the
republicans own the country they can confiscate the airwaves and
eliminate our right to listen to radio that we choose to pay for - that
would be good for business, I imagine - steal from the public and give
to your friends in exchange for money contributed to your election campaign.


Perhaps you'll learn to use proper quote annotation? I have about
20,000 radio stations available, from around the world.

I've never found anything on public radio worth listening to.
Interchannel static had more information, and was more entertaining.
Public Radio could replace waterboarding as torture.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 22:40:18 -0700, a friend
wrote:

On 9/14/2011 8:57 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Don't get too used to your "free" broadcast tv/radio, broadcast is dying
since they have not found a new business model that will work in this
age of competition. You can readily see the death-twitching in the flood
of scam advertising (colon cleanser scam, work from home scam, payday
loans, etc.) that broadcasters would never have accepted in the past.
Now they are desperate for ad revenue and will accept anything, which
only drives away move viewers/listeners. The consolidation of broadcast
to a few big companies cut overhead and bought them some time, but soon
even that will not help ad revenues meet operating expenses and stations
will be going dark.



perhaps you have heard of a thing called "public radio", in which
willing participants pay their radio station? No advertisers required,
and the ones in my local area at least receive virtually no government
support. I guess that's not conservative enough for you guys though,
what with people voluntarily paying for content, yet allowing some
others to have the content as well, without paying. Maybe when the
republicans own the country they can confiscate the airwaves and
eliminate our right to listen to radio that we choose to pay for - that
would be good for business, I imagine - steal from the public and give
to your friends in exchange for money contributed to your election campaign.

Odd isnt it that standard AM radio is heavily conservative..its content
is heavily conservative...Rush, etc etc etc..and is paid for by
conservatives..and owned by Conservatives.

Leftwingers need not apply..you have your easy listening stations on FM
along with your wacked out heavy metal stations...and your latino
stations.

Odd isnt it..that AM radio continues to Grow larger and larger..with
conservatives as its audience. Rush Limbaugh as a single example..has
20 MILLION listeners each week. Hell...CNN barely has that many..and
its ****ing TV

Get real, you stupid ****....when you blither about steal from the
public and give to ones friends...thats Liberalism through and through.


Gunner

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

a friend wrote:

On 9/14/2011 8:57 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Don't get too used to your "free" broadcast tv/radio, broadcast is dying
since they have not found a new business model that will work in this
age of competition. You can readily see the death-twitching in the flood
of scam advertising (colon cleanser scam, work from home scam, payday
loans, etc.) that broadcasters would never have accepted in the past.
Now they are desperate for ad revenue and will accept anything, which
only drives away move viewers/listeners. The consolidation of broadcast
to a few big companies cut overhead and bought them some time, but soon
even that will not help ad revenues meet operating expenses and stations
will be going dark.



perhaps you have heard of a thing called "public radio", in which
willing participants pay their radio station? No advertisers required,
and the ones in my local area at least receive virtually no government
support. I guess that's not conservative enough for you guys though,
what with people voluntarily paying for content, yet allowing some
others to have the content as well, without paying. Maybe when the
republicans own the country they can confiscate the airwaves and
eliminate our right to listen to radio that we choose to pay for - that
would be good for business, I imagine - steal from the public and give
to your friends in exchange for money contributed to your election campaign.

I've certainly heard of and periodically listen to NPR, however one
station per market isn't a good thing by anyone's standards, and indeed
it is difficult to get a good NPR signal where I live.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

I've never found anything on public radio worth listening to.

I guess you haven't actually spent more than a few minutes listening to
public radio. There are is a lot of very good programming on NPR,
certainly not all of it is good, but at least 50% is.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 22:40:18 -0700, a friend
wrote:

On 9/14/2011 8:57 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Don't get too used to your "free" broadcast tv/radio, broadcast is
dying
since they have not found a new business model that will work in this
age of competition. You can readily see the death-twitching in the
flood
of scam advertising (colon cleanser scam, work from home scam, payday
loans, etc.) that broadcasters would never have accepted in the past.
Now they are desperate for ad revenue and will accept anything, which
only drives away move viewers/listeners. The consolidation of broadcast
to a few big companies cut overhead and bought them some time, but soon
even that will not help ad revenues meet operating expenses and
stations
will be going dark.



perhaps you have heard of a thing called "public radio", in which
willing participants pay their radio station? No advertisers required,
and the ones in my local area at least receive virtually no government
support. I guess that's not conservative enough for you guys though,
what with people voluntarily paying for content, yet allowing some
others to have the content as well, without paying. Maybe when the
republicans own the country they can confiscate the airwaves and
eliminate our right to listen to radio that we choose to pay for - that
would be good for business, I imagine - steal from the public and give
to your friends in exchange for money contributed to your election
campaign.

Odd isnt it that standard AM radio is heavily conservative..its content
is heavily conservative...Rush, etc etc etc..and is paid for by
conservatives..and owned by Conservatives.

Of course it is! They did a survey, and they've counted how many of your
pickup trucks have coathangers in the antenna sockets.

--
Ed Huntress

"Pete C." wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

I've never found anything on public radio worth listening to.

I guess you haven't actually spent more than a few minutes listening to
public radio. There are is a lot of very good programming on NPR,
certainly not all of it is good, but at least 50% is.


Listen to it if you like it. I don't. A few minutes at a time was
all I could take. I like to listen to music at low volume to mask
background noise. Most talk radio makes me want to smash every radio in
sight. I no longer give a **** about sports, so music is all that's
left. I currently have http://www.wsmonline.com streaming all the time
that I'm home & awake. I was a radio & TV broadcast engineer for years,
and the low quality of today's programing and service is an
embarrassment. The stations around here are useless. There is so much
electrical noise that the AM band is useless, and the FM band is more
talk radio, "Soft Rock" (Wet drywall?) and low power religious
stations. There are two stations that claim to play country music, but
like the line in a real country song: 'That ain't country, it's just bad
rock & roll!!!'

That leaves the internet to find something to listen to.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On Sep 15, 7:37*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message

...





On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 22:40:18 -0700, a friend
wrote:

On 9/14/2011 8:57 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Don't get too used to your "free" broadcast tv/radio, broadcast is
dying
since they have not found a new business model that will work in this
age of competition. You can readily see the death-twitching in the
flood
of scam advertising (colon cleanser scam, work from home scam, payday
loans, etc.) that broadcasters would never have accepted in the past..
Now they are desperate for ad revenue and will accept anything, which
only drives away move viewers/listeners. The consolidation of broadcast
to a few big companies cut overhead and bought them some time, but soon
even that will not help ad revenues meet operating expenses and
stations
will be going dark.

perhaps you have heard of a thing called "public radio", in which
willing participants pay their radio station? *No advertisers required,
and the ones in my local area at least receive virtually no government
support. *I guess that's not conservative enough for you guys though,
what with people voluntarily paying for content, yet allowing some
others to have the content as well, without paying. *Maybe when the
republicans own the country they can confiscate the airwaves and
eliminate our right to listen to radio that we choose to pay for - that
would be good for business, I imagine - steal from the public and give
to your friends in exchange for money contributed to your election
campaign.

Odd isnt it that standard AM radio is heavily conservative..its content
is heavily conservative...Rush, etc etc etc..and is paid for by
conservatives..and owned by Conservatives.

Of course it is! They did a survey, and they've counted how many of your
pickup trucks have coathangers in the antenna sockets.

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

LOL...good one Ed...and right on.

TMT

On Sep 15, 1:31*pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 15, 7:37*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:









"Gunner Asch" wrote in message

.. .

On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 22:40:18 -0700, a friend
wrote:

On 9/14/2011 8:57 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Don't get too used to your "free" broadcast tv/radio, broadcast is
dying
since they have not found a new business model that will work in this
age of competition. You can readily see the death-twitching in the
flood
of scam advertising (colon cleanser scam, work from home scam, payday
loans, etc.) that broadcasters would never have accepted in the past.
Now they are desperate for ad revenue and will accept anything, which
only drives away move viewers/listeners. The consolidation of broadcast
to a few big companies cut overhead and bought them some time, but soon
even that will not help ad revenues meet operating expenses and
stations
will be going dark.

perhaps you have heard of a thing called "public radio", in which
willing participants pay their radio station? *No advertisers required,
and the ones in my local area at least receive virtually no government
support. *I guess that's not conservative enough for you guys though,
what with people voluntarily paying for content, yet allowing some
others to have the content as well, without paying. *Maybe when the
republicans own the country they can confiscate the airwaves and
eliminate our right to listen to radio that we choose to pay for - that
would be good for business, I imagine - steal from the public and give
to your friends in exchange for money contributed to your election
campaign.

Odd isnt it that standard AM radio is heavily conservative..its content
is heavily conservative...Rush, etc etc etc..and is paid for by
conservatives..and owned by Conservatives.

Of course it is! They did a survey, and they've counted how many of your
pickup trucks have coathangers in the antenna sockets.

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

LOL...good one Ed...and right on.

TMT



Methinks I'd like to consider myself "comfortably poor".

Modest upscale house paid for. 1 year old car paid for. Well-
equipped manual work shop paid for. DVD player for the odd movie or
photographs. No consumer debt. 1993 RX7 toy car needing some work
on the engine now. Maybe engine re-build after 180,000 Km???

2 computers; IBM Think Pad 10 years old and a Dell whiz-bang 3 years
old. Digital camera 7 years old, digital video camera 1 year old.

Modest irregular income but at high $ per hour. Modest pension. Some
savings and investments to provide that "warm and comfortable
feeling..."

Soon after my wife died I discontinued the cable TV as I found it
unwatchable, and only listen to the radio when I must drive through
Toronto in order to get the traffic forecast.... this usually too late
to avoid traffic jams.:-)). Get my news from the 'net.

Rarely do I go out to eat; I buy a lot of my food semi-prepared since
I am a lousy cook. My cleaning lady suggested that I take cooking
classes... something to consider and maybe meet a hot babe??? Yeah,
dreaming in technicolour here as there was only my one Mary.

I go to a lot of club meetings though for interesting conversation.
Glad that this season is now beginning.

Now I am in the process of reducing the recurring bills. Thank god
natural gas is cheap, but electricity is a killer. I just got my
bill of $330.00 covering from mid June to mid August. This includes
air conditioning and a 3/4 HP pool pump that runs continuously for 6
months of the year. Any suggestions on how to improve motor
efficiency here? The motor draws 13.8 full load amps... I will
measure it for actual amps but efficiency is lousy for a 3/4 HP
motor.

Some years ago we added 9" of fiberglass insulation to the attic, (15"
total), new thermopane windows, insulated outside doors, and a high
efficiency gas furnace. This has reduced the gas bill to $105 per
month for last January and February. This includes hot water and my
gas fire place used about 3 to 4 hours every night during the winter.

For comparison, in 1981, for a house with 1/2 the roof area of my
current digs, the heating oil bill was $125 per month for January.

Too bad my wife is not with me to enjoy all these comforts she
contributed so much to..... But nobody ever said that life was fair.

Here is a cute anecdote of our 35+ years together:
Whenever I appeared to be searching for something my wife would ask
"What are you looking for?" To which I would reply with my standard
line of "fame, fortune, fast cars, and loose women". To which my wife
would reply "Well dear, 2 out of 4 isn't bad, is it?????"

Wolfgang

wolfgang wrote:

(...)

Now I am in the process of reducing the recurring bills. Thank god
natural gas is cheap, but electricity is a killer. I just got my
bill of $330.00 covering from mid June to mid August. This includes
air conditioning and a 3/4 HP pool pump that runs continuously for 6
months of the year. Any suggestions on how to improve motor
efficiency here?

Do you get much use from the pool?
A friend of mine decided the pain and expense
wasn't worth it.
She chopped out the bottom of her pool and had
lots of clean fill dirt put in. It improved
the efficiency mightily and boosted the sale
price of the place, when she did decide to move.

(...)

Here is a cute anecdote of our 35+ years together:
Whenever I appeared to be searching for something my wife would ask
"What are you looking for?" To which I would reply with my standard
line of "fame, fortune, fast cars, and loose women". To which my wife
would reply "Well dear, 2 out of 4 isn't bad, is it?????"



--Winston

On Sep 15, 3:48*pm, Winston wrote:
wolfgang wrote:

(...)

Now I am in the process of reducing the recurring bills. *Thank god
natural gas is cheap, *but electricity is a killer. *I just got my
bill of $330.00 covering from mid June to mid August. *This includes
air conditioning and a 3/4 HP pool pump that runs continuously for 6
months of the year. *Any suggestions on how to improve motor
efficiency here?

Do you get much use from the pool?
A friend of mine decided the pain and expense
wasn't worth it.
She chopped out the bottom of her pool and had
lots of clean fill dirt put in. *It improved
the efficiency mightily and boosted the sale
price of the place, when she did decide to move.

(...)

Here is a cute anecdote of our 35+ years together:
Whenever I appeared to be searching for something my wife would ask
"What are you looking for?" *To which I would reply with my standard
line of "fame, fortune, fast cars, and loose women". *To which my wife
would reply "Well dear, 2 out of 4 isn't bad, is it?????"



--Winston

Winston,

No we don't use the pool much anymore; it came with the house when we
bought it 18 years ago and it was old then, at least for a pool.

We thoroughly overhauled it in 1996 including a new liner, and at that
time thought about filling it in. But the pool is a nice visual
thing, much like a fountain in a park.

Back in '93 we planted lots of trees and a hedge which is now 12 feet
tall.

The yard looks like a clearing in the forest with a pool in the
middle... very pleasant indeed. The cost is not too bad for
chemicals and we open and close it ourselves.

To run the pump is about $400 for 6 months. I've tried to put the
pump on a timer but during hot weather the water doesn't like it and
turns green. I'm afraid to cycle the pump more than once every three
hours or so as this shortens the starting switch life expectancy.

I've thought of using a 3 phase high efficiency motor with VFD.
Anybody know what the max. efficiency is of one of these? Or possibly
a DC motor but the commutator life expectancy could be problematic.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Wolfgang

On 9/13/2011 10:40 PM, Bill wrote:
On 9/13/2011 10:01 PM, Steve B wrote:
lid wrote in message
...
On 2011-09-14, Steve wrote:
I guess I am. I do not have some of the things mentioned here that some
"poor" people have ...........

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09...says-most.html


I guess if I just gave more of my income in taxes...........

My guess would be that you have cable TV, air conditioning, computers,
but no video game system. Right or wrong?

i

Correct. I play 888 poker occasionally, and have $512,000 now, but
only in
play dollars. As for game systems, I just don't have the time. I do play
pool from 15-60 minutes daily, though. Regulation table. And I'm not
going
to pay what they want for a game system or those games. I'll buy more
beer
brewing equipment or tools or materials.

Steve



very odd. I don't have AC, I don't have cable TV, I don't have a wide
screen TV, so I must be poor - the fact that I don't actually want these
things, or that I don't feel that they are worth the cost seems to not
matter? or is the heritage foundation saying that the poor really aren't
poor?



Yep, that's it. That right wing group of nut balls wants people to think
that if you have a fifty dollar microwave, and a 100 dollar TV, and you
have a 150 dollar window air conditioner, then you're not really poor.
In fact, you're living large because they will compare your belongings
to those of a Somali and bitch at you for complaining that you have so
little. It all goes along with their pitch that the republican trickle
down economics plan has really been a great boon for everyone in the
country and not just the rich. Which, of course, is an outright lie.
Everyone except the rich is poorer than they were a decade ago.

Hawke


Hawke

On 9/14/2011 1:04 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:40:29 -0700,
wrote:

On 9/13/2011 10:01 PM, Steve B wrote:
lid wrote in message
...
On 2011-09-14, Steve wrote:
I guess I am. I do not have some of the things mentioned here that some
"poor" people have ...........

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09...says-most.html

I guess if I just gave more of my income in taxes...........

My guess would be that you have cable TV, air conditioning, computers,
but no video game system. Right or wrong?

i

Correct. I play 888 poker occasionally, and have $512,000 now, but only in
play dollars. As for game systems, I just don't have the time. I do play
pool from 15-60 minutes daily, though. Regulation table. And I'm not going
to pay what they want for a game system or those games. I'll buy more beer
brewing equipment or tools or materials.

Steve



very odd. I don't have AC, I don't have cable TV, I don't have a wide
screen TV, so I must be poor - the fact that I don't actually want these
things, or that I don't feel that they are worth the cost seems to not
matter? or is the heritage foundation saying that the poor really
aren't poor?

Same here. TV comes in via antenna to an elderly 21" CRT tv

I do have a stereo ($10 at a second hand store) DVD player ($5) VCR ($5)
TV in the bedroom (antenna), 3 computers, 2 laptops, no video games, no
games on my computer(s)

The last time I turned on a TV was...Friday IRRC. Stereo (FM) has been
running most of the time since.

Ive got a couple radios out in the shop.

I do have a swamp cooler. But I live in the desert. Thank Crom its
starting to cool off a little.

So Im poor as hell!


Yes you are! And it's your fault. It has nothing to do with anything
that the republicans did when they sent the country into a tailspin and
ruined the financial system. If you're poor it's your own fault.
Remember that next time you vote for another rich, white, republican,
man who tells you how bad the Democrats are for people like you.

Hawke

On 9/14/2011 4:18 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

So Im poor as hell!


While I likely could *afford* the "luxuries" mentioned, I don't allow morons
to dictate where I spend my money. The very notion that TV is one of the
requirements for a happy life is nothing short of BS. I question the
sanity of *anyone* that permits an entity to sell them a signal that is
loaded with paid advertising----especially when the advertising is likely
better than the programming that it buys. I can't get interested in either
of them, quite frankly.

Do I have a TV?

Yep, I do. But, there's no way in hell I'm going to shell out more than
$30/month, endlessly, for the garbage they put on the tube these days.

I get two stations, one a PBS, the other, Fox. I watch 60 Minutes on the
computer, at my convenience.

I'm with you, Gunner. Our stereo (and listening to FM) gets the best
workout, and it's worth every penny it cost.

Harold


Oh..I pay $4.99 a month for Giganews and acess it via my cellphone
hooked up to my computer. Cellphone is $65 a month but its unlimited
service/web/data.


Heritage is right. You're not poor. You even have a cell phone and spend
65 bucks a month on it. Could a poor person do that? Enough said. You
are a success after all. The American dream is yours. If only everyone
could do as well as you we'd have a great country again.

Hawke

On 9/15/2011 5:25 AM, Pete C. wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

I've never found anything on public radio worth listening to.

I guess you haven't actually spent more than a few minutes listening to
public radio. There are is a lot of very good programming on NPR,
certainly not all of it is good, but at least 50% is.



I guess you don't realize what a freakin' weirdo you're talking to.
Someone like him would find nothing to his liking on NPR. You have to
get something really far out and nutty and then he would like it. He's
certifiable.

Hawke

wolfgang wrote:

(...)

To run the pump is about $400 for 6 months. I've tried to put the
pump on a timer but during hot weather the water doesn't like it and
turns green.

I wonder if adding ozone to the water would allow you to run the
pump less?

http://www.aqua-pool-warehouse.com/c...Generators.asp

I know nothing about these units but they look promising.

I'm afraid to cycle the pump more than once every three
hours or so as this shortens the starting switch life expectancy.

We had our pool pump on a daily timer for about a decade.
The motor was perfectly fine throughout that time.

--Winston

On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 06:19:20 -0700, Winston
wrote:

wolfgang wrote:

(...)

To run the pump is about $400 for 6 months. I've tried to put the
pump on a timer but during hot weather the water doesn't like it and
turns green.

It appears that a larger pump and an extra inlet/outlet would be the
fix for that. The small one is just not up to the job.


I wonder if adding ozone to the water would allow you to run the
pump less?

http://www.aqua-pool-warehouse.com/c...Generators.asp

I know nothing about these units but they look promising.

Dad had an ozonator on the spa he had and it worked fantastically. It
allowed him to minimize chlorine and other chemical use.

He also had a 100' length of plain old 1/2" poly tubing stapled to a
black painted sheet of plywood which he used as a solar heater. It
dropped his heating costs to zero about 10 months a year, but that was
in sunny LoCal.


I'm afraid to cycle the pump more than once every three
hours or so as this shortens the starting switch life expectancy.

We had our pool pump on a daily timer for about a decade.
The motor was perfectly fine throughout that time.

Our first house in CA had an in-ground pool, and I think the filter
ran 4 hours a day. It was a 16x24' oval with an 8' deep end. Pool
timers are built for that.

--
Self-development is a higher duty than self-sacrifice.
-- Elizabeth Cady Stanton

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 06:19:20 -0700,
wrote:


(...)

It appears that a larger pump and an extra inlet/outlet would be the
fix for that. The small one is just not up to the job.

I ain't so sure. I think Wolfgang now keeps the algae
at bay by injecting O2 via the pump. It's a good thing
but is not the primary purpose of the pump.

Thus the ozone injection and a reduction in pump time
is in order. This is purely a guess on my part, I admit.

I wonder if adding ozone to the water would allow you to run the
pump less?

http://www.aqua-pool-warehouse.com/c...Generators.asp

I know nothing about these units but they look promising.

Dad had an ozonator on the spa he had and it worked fantastically. It
allowed him to minimize chlorine and other chemical use.

There is a data point! Thanks!

(...)

We had our pool pump on a daily timer for about a decade.
The motor was perfectly fine throughout that time.

Pool timers are built for that.

As are the pump motors themselves.

--Winston

On Sep 15, 8:17*pm, wolfgang wrote:





To run the pump is about $400 for 6 months. *I've tried to put the
pump on a timer but during hot weather the water doesn't like it and
turns green. *I'm afraid to cycle the pump more than once every three
hours or so as this shortens the starting switch life expectancy.


Wolfgang


A thought. Could you connect a lawn sprinkler to the output of the
pump and have its output come down into the pool. The water droplets
would adsorb oxygen in the air and the agitated pool surface would
also add oxygen to the pool.

My understanding is that releasing air at the bottom of the pool does
not work so well. Too much nitrogen gets adsorbed by the water.

Dan

Ignoramus6900 wrote:

On 2011-09-14, Steve B wrote:
I guess I am. I do not have some of the things mentioned here that some
"poor" people have ...........

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09...says-most.html

I guess if I just gave more of my income in taxes...........

My guess would be that you have cable TV, air conditioning, computers,
but no video game system. Right or wrong?

i

OMG, I don't have a gaming system! I am such a failure.

On 2011-09-16, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus6900 wrote:

On 2011-09-14, Steve B wrote:
I guess I am. I do not have some of the things mentioned here that some
"poor" people have ...........

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09...says-most.html

I guess if I just gave more of my income in taxes...........

My guess would be that you have cable TV, air conditioning, computers,
but no video game system. Right or wrong?

i

OMG, I don't have a gaming system! I am such a failure.

I am guessing that boys 5-18 years old do not live in your house...

On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 19:00:10 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Ignoramus6900 wrote:

On 2011-09-14, Steve B wrote:
I guess I am. I do not have some of the things mentioned here that some
"poor" people have ...........

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/09...says-most.html

I guess if I just gave more of my income in taxes...........

My guess would be that you have cable TV, air conditioning, computers,
but no video game system. Right or wrong?

i

OMG, I don't have a gaming system! I am such a failure.

Hayseuss Crisco! Neither do I, cable or games.
I'm a doubly poor failure.

Then again, Sir Winston Churchill said "Success is the ability to go
from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

I think I'll go with Churchill over the guy at Heritage for this one.

--
Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds
are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her
tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the
existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
-- Thomas Jefferson

On Sep 16, 2:00*pm, " wrote:
On Sep 15, 8:17*pm, wolfgang wrote:

To run the pump is about $400 for 6 months. *I've tried to put the
pump on a timer but during hot weather the water doesn't like it and
turns green. *I'm afraid to cycle the pump more than once every three
hours or so as this shortens the starting switch life expectancy.

Wolfgang

A *thought. *Could you connect a lawn sprinkler to the output of the
pump and have its output come down into the pool. *The water droplets
would adsorb oxygen in the air and the agitated pool surface would
also add oxygen to the pool.

My understanding is that releasing air at the bottom of the pool does
not work so well. *Too much nitrogen gets adsorbed by the water.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Dan




Thanks for all those suggestions, they are greatly appreciated!

Currently I have a floating chlorinator that I fill with 3" dia.
"pucks" every 10 days or so. For July and August I also add an
algicide. I used to have an automatic chlorinator, also with pucks,
but it was very difficult to keep the chlorine level properly
adjusted.

Spraying part of the returned pool water through the air to absorb
oxygen can be done with a small pump while the main pump is shut off.
Running the main pump 4 to 6 hours per day sounds REALLY appealing!

Ozonation is another item to look into. I seem to recall that this
method is also used for drinking water treatment in some areas?

All good stuff. Thanks again.

Wolfgang

Currently I have a floating chlorinator that I fill with 3" dia.
"pucks" every 10 days or so. For July and August I also add an
algicide. I used to have an automatic chlorinator, also with pucks,
but it was very difficult to keep the chlorine level properly
adjusted.

Wolfgang

Check your stabilizer with a cyanuric acid tester, if you haven't already.
Stabilizer (cyanuric acid) keeps chlorine from offgassing from the surface.
About $20, and you need to test it every six to twelve months. Very simple
test that even a girl could do. If that is your problem, you will have an
instant reduction in the amount of chlorine you use, and stabilization in
levels. Best damn thing I ever found for pools.

Steve

wolfgang wrote:

(...)

Thanks for all those suggestions, they are greatly appreciated!

Keep us posted, willya?

--Winston

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:17:40 -0700 (PDT), wolfgang
wrote:

On Sep 15, 3:48*pm, Winston wrote:
wolfgang wrote:

(...)

Now I am in the process of reducing the recurring bills. *Thank god
natural gas is cheap, *but electricity is a killer. *I just got my
bill of $330.00 covering from mid June to mid August. *This includes
air conditioning and a 3/4 HP pool pump that runs continuously for 6
months of the year. *Any suggestions on how to improve motor
efficiency here?

Do you get much use from the pool?
A friend of mine decided the pain and expense
wasn't worth it.
She chopped out the bottom of her pool and had
lots of clean fill dirt put in. *It improved
the efficiency mightily and boosted the sale
price of the place, when she did decide to move.

(...)

Here is a cute anecdote of our 35+ years together:
Whenever I appeared to be searching for something my wife would ask
"What are you looking for?" *To which I would reply with my standard
line of "fame, fortune, fast cars, and loose women". *To which my wife
would reply "Well dear, 2 out of 4 isn't bad, is it?????"



--Winston

Winston,

No we don't use the pool much anymore; it came with the house when we
bought it 18 years ago and it was old then, at least for a pool.

We thoroughly overhauled it in 1996 including a new liner, and at that
time thought about filling it in. But the pool is a nice visual
thing, much like a fountain in a park.

Back in '93 we planted lots of trees and a hedge which is now 12 feet
tall.

The yard looks like a clearing in the forest with a pool in the
middle... very pleasant indeed. The cost is not too bad for
chemicals and we open and close it ourselves.

To run the pump is about $400 for 6 months. I've tried to put the
pump on a timer but during hot weather the water doesn't like it and
turns green. I'm afraid to cycle the pump more than once every three
hours or so as this shortens the starting switch life expectancy.

I've thought of using a 3 phase high efficiency motor with VFD.
Anybody know what the max. efficiency is of one of these? Or possibly
a DC motor but the commutator life expectancy could be problematic.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Wolfgang

Change to a salt water pool. Its becoming very popular here in
California...

http://ezinearticles.com/?Salt-Water...ity&id=6138635


--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

On Sep 17, 8:37*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
wolfgang wrote:

On Sep 16, 2:00 pm, " wrote:
On Sep 15, 8:17 pm, wolfgang wrote:

To run the pump is about $400 for 6 months. *I've tried to put the
pump on a timer but during hot weather the water doesn't like it and
turns green. *I'm afraid to cycle the pump more than once every three
hours or so as this shortens the starting switch life expectancy.

Wolfgang

A *thought. *Could you connect a lawn sprinkler to the output of the
pump and have its output come down into the pool. *The water droplets
would adsorb oxygen in the air and the agitated pool surface would
also add oxygen to the pool.

My understanding is that releasing air at the bottom of the pool does
not work so well. *Too much nitrogen gets adsorbed by the water.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Dan

Thanks for all those suggestions, they are greatly appreciated!

Currently I have a floating chlorinator that I fill with 3" dia.
"pucks" every 10 days or so. *For July and August I also add an
algicide. *I used to have an automatic chlorinator, also with pucks,
but it was very difficult to keep the chlorine level properly
adjusted.

Spraying part of the returned pool water through the air to absorb
oxygen can be done with a small pump while the main pump is shut off.
Running the main pump 4 to 6 hours per day sounds REALLY appealing!

Ozonation is another item to look into. * I seem to recall that this
method is also used for drinking water treatment in some areas?

All good stuff. *Thanks again.

* *I did that for a neighbor's fish pond to control the algae. *It
worked great, till someone talked her into some plants that were
supposed to do the same thing with less water loss. They ripped out what
I'd built and made their changes. *It was completely green again in a
couple weeks. *I had built a small waterfall out of rocks, about 24"
high and a foot wide.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.


Pool pump efficiency stinks!

Yesterday I measured the current draw of my 3/4 HP pool pump. Meter
read 8.8 amps, and the name plate states 13.8 amps full load current.
Doing some calcs I determined that at that operating point of the
motor the electrical efficiency is 35%! Something clearly needs to be
done. (knowledgable electric motor guys may wish to chime in on this,
please). I think that maybe a 1/2 HP pump would suffice? The suction
line is 1 1/2" dia. with 3 elbows and about 40 ft in length.

I was perusing a pool maintenance website and the moderator
recommended that the pump be run at least 6 hrs per day.

Since it is too late in the season to do much with the pool (I close
and winterize it on the Labour Day weekend) I have put the timer back
in the motor circuit and set it such that it cycles 4 hours on and 4
hours off; thus cutting the power consumption by almost 50 %.

For next year I will do the same while investigating better electric
motor efficiencies and how to achieve this. Perhaps by using algecide
earlier and more regularly in the season the algae can be avoided with
cycled pump times.

I'd be interested in learning much more about motor efficiencies and
how to achieve this; any recommended readings are greatly
appreciated! ****, one can buy electric model motors running at tens
of thousands of RPM with 90 % efficiency, dirt cheap.

Wolfgang

wolfgang wrote:

On Sep 17, 8:37 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
wolfgang wrote:

On Sep 16, 2:00 pm, " wrote:
On Sep 15, 8:17 pm, wolfgang wrote:

To run the pump is about $400 for 6 months. I've tried to put the
pump on a timer but during hot weather the water doesn't like it and
turns green. I'm afraid to cycle the pump more than once every three
hours or so as this shortens the starting switch life expectancy.

Wolfgang

A thought. Could you connect a lawn sprinkler to the output of the
pump and have its output come down into the pool. The water droplets
would adsorb oxygen in the air and the agitated pool surface would
also add oxygen to the pool.

My understanding is that releasing air at the bottom of the pool does
not work so well. Too much nitrogen gets adsorbed by the water.

Dan

Thanks for all those suggestions, they are greatly appreciated!

Currently I have a floating chlorinator that I fill with 3" dia.
"pucks" every 10 days or so. For July and August I also add an
algicide. I used to have an automatic chlorinator, also with pucks,
but it was very difficult to keep the chlorine level properly
adjusted.

Spraying part of the returned pool water through the air to absorb
oxygen can be done with a small pump while the main pump is shut off.
Running the main pump 4 to 6 hours per day sounds REALLY appealing!

Ozonation is another item to look into. I seem to recall that this
method is also used for drinking water treatment in some areas?

All good stuff. Thanks again.

I did that for a neighbor's fish pond to control the algae. It
worked great, till someone talked her into some plants that were
supposed to do the same thing with less water loss. They ripped out what
I'd built and made their changes. It was completely green again in a
couple weeks. I had built a small waterfall out of rocks, about 24"
high and a foot wide.

Pool pump efficiency stinks!


Then fill in the pool and do without.


Yesterday I measured the current draw of my 3/4 HP pool pump. Meter
read 8.8 amps, and the name plate states 13.8 amps full load current.


That simply means that the pump isn't fully loaded. The load depends
on the 'head', or how high the pump has to lift the water. It also
allows the pump to start faster and with less mechanical strain.


Doing some calcs I determined that at that operating point of the
motor the electrical efficiency is 35%! Something clearly needs to be
done. (knowledgable electric motor guys may wish to chime in on this,
please). I think that maybe a 1/2 HP pump would suffice? The suction
line is 1 1/2" dia. with 3 elbows and about 40 ft in length.


A smaller pump would have to run at full load, and would wear out a
lot faster.


I was perusing a pool maintenance website and the moderator
recommended that the pump be run at least 6 hrs per day.

Since it is too late in the season to do much with the pool (I close
and winterize it on the Labour Day weekend) I have put the timer back
in the motor circuit and set it such that it cycles 4 hours on and 4
hours off; thus cutting the power consumption by almost 50%.

For next year I will do the same while investigating better electric
motor efficiencies and how to achieve this. Perhaps by using algecide
earlier and more regularly in the season the algae can be avoided with
cycled pump times.

I'd be interested in learning much more about motor efficiencies and
how to achieve this; any recommended readings are greatly
appreciated! ****, one can buy electric model motors running at tens
of thousands of RPM with 90 % efficiency, dirt cheap.



Try one and see how long it will last on a pump. Have a fire
extinguisher handy.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.