I tried posting this over at the Toyota truck newsgroup and got no
help, so back to RCM is it.


3 weeks ago my 85 Toyota 1-ton blew it's rod bearing.
Instead of replacing the engine again, I opted for another truck.
I got a 86 extra-cab, longbed (yes it has both and is really long) in
excellent condition.

Now I don't want to get rid of my 1-ton because it is really rare and
since I do metal fab, that 1-ton suspension has been really useful.
I spent a lot of time and money over the last year replacing a lot of
parts on the truck.
What I want to do is bring the truck back to life.
I have to choose how to do that.
It currently has the Fuel Injected 22REC engine.
A good rebuilt one is around $1500-$1600.
A junkyard pulled engine is like $400-$700 as far as I can find.


There is the option of a Buick or Chevy small-block V-6, but it just
looks like too much trouble.

I am thinking about rebuilding the engine myself.
I have a metal fab shop, and since I have the '86 to drive for now there
is no immediate hurry.

On the '85 I have done everything except the engine itself,
I have been leery of actually getting inside the engine without
training, or at least supervision.

I can buy a rebuild kit for around $400, but is it better to rebuild
the engine in the truck or on a bench?
The tranny was last done about 150,000 miles ago, but can't be tested
until I get a working engine on it.
The truck has 265,000 on it.
The factory engine died at 185,000, and I got about 80,000 out of the
rebuilt one I bought 7 years ago.
I have had this truck since 89, and it has been cared for, but also
USED a lot.

I love this truck.
There is some question whether the block is worth rebuilding since it
might be too damaged.
I figure I could get a pulled block from a local junkyard, and just
rebuild the engine on a bench.

Thoughts?

Also what is the best book on rebuilding a 22R?

I am also planning on converting the 1-ton to a flatbed.
It won't have the duallies, but that is fine.
I have wanted a flatbed really bad over the last 2 years, since I
started building a lot of heavy steel staircases.
Having one truck with an overhead rack and one with a flatbed is a
dream of mine.
I am going to add some booster springs to my 86 to take it to a 3/4 ton
suspension.

In article , Ernie Leimkuhler says...

I love this truck.
There is some question whether the block is worth rebuilding since it
might be too damaged.
I figure I could get a pulled block from a local junkyard, and just
rebuild the engine on a bench.

Thoughts?

Toyotas of that vintage usually don't have much
frame or body left. Is there something special
about this truck that made it last longer?

I'm suprised that the toy ng or mailing lists
don't do better. I had the url for a very good
one, mostly truck-related, which I queried about
my camry questions. It was pretty good.

I'm also suprised that a 22R motor had the bottom
end go. I thought those things were pretty much
bulletproof.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

jim rozen wrote:

Toyotas of that vintage usually don't have much
frame or body left. Is there something special
about this truck that made it last longer?

I'm suprised that the toy ng or mailing lists
don't do better. I had the url for a very good
one, mostly truck-related, which I queried about
my camry questions. It was pretty good.



I can't say specifically about the trucks, but I have an '89 Toyota
Corolla station wagon. Against the dealer's recommendations,
it is the first car I had undercoated. There is no body rust, and only
a few small spots of rust on the very corners of frame members, etc.
on the underside. I'm quite impressed. It has 129,000 miles on it,
and they use PLENTY of salt in the winter, here, in St. Louis,
where the average driver is in a total tizzy with 1/4" of snow.
I used to giggle as I drove around people in 4X4s that were stuck,
because they had no idea how to drive in snow.

(as for reliability, it is pretty good, too. I finally had the first
non-standard maintenance items show up. A new starter at 110,000
and got the rear wheel cylinders rebuilt at 128,000. Before that,
it was just tires, bateries, brake shoes & pads, and mufflers.)

Jon

In article , says...
In article , Ernie Leimkuhler says...

I love this truck.

Ernie, I think you should rebuild it. If it really is a bad
connecting rod bearing, the only parts involved are the
crankshaft, bearing and connecting rod. Very replaceable,
and the crank can probably be reground.

It's just some more stuff to learn. Just do it. If you can FAB
steel, you can carefully do a rebuild. Mostly it's just
a disassemble, buy new or have a shop regrind old (crank, valves etc),
reassemble with care and all new gaskets etc. kind of job.
If you have typical socket sets etc, you need a torque wrench,
and buy or rent a cylinder ridge reamer and piston ring
compressor and valve spring compressor.

I didn't know what I was getting into when I rebuilt my 1951 Ford
flathead IN the vehicle, at age 16. But I learned fast. Definitely
pull the engine out and work in the shop. Maybe a Harbor Freight
engine stand as a luxury...

I'm looking forward to rebuilding another small block GM (My Yukon
has 180,000 miles) next year.

Just do it.

--
Regards, Terry King ...In The Woods In Vermont

The one who Dies With The Most Parts LOSES!! What do you need?

In article , jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Ernie Leimkuhler says...

I love this truck.
There is some question whether the block is worth rebuilding since it
might be too damaged.
I figure I could get a pulled block from a local junkyard, and just
rebuild the engine on a bench.

Thoughts?

Toyotas of that vintage usually don't have much
frame or body left. Is there something special
about this truck that made it last longer?


It left Inidiana in 1990, so no more salted roads.

The Salt in the winter in the Midwest just eats imports.
West coast Toyotas last forever.


I'm suprised that the toy ng or mailing lists
don't do better. I had the url for a very good
one, mostly truck-related, which I queried about
my camry questions. It was pretty good.


No responses yet after 4 days.

I'm also suprised that a 22R motor had the bottom
end go. I thought those things were pretty much
bulletproof.

Jim



So did I.


==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 23 Sep 2003 13:28:34 -0700, jim rozen
wrote something
.......and in reply I say!:

In article , Ernie Leimkuhler says...

I love this truck.
There is some question whether the block is worth rebuilding since it
might be too damaged.
I figure I could get a pulled block from a local junkyard, and just
rebuild the engine on a bench.

Thoughts?


I have a 67 Stout, very little rust. I also have an 86 Dyna Dual Cab.
Small rust in the back doors at the bottom. Cars now, I don't know.

Toyotas of that vintage usually don't have much
frame or body left. Is there something special
about this truck that made it last longer?

************************************************** ****************************************
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.
The rest sit around and make snide comments.

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music
Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email
!!
")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
...
I tried posting this over at the Toyota truck newsgroup and got no
help, so back to RCM is it.


3 weeks ago my 85 Toyota 1-ton blew it's rod bearing.
Instead of replacing the engine again, I opted for another truck.
I got a 86 extra-cab, longbed (yes it has both and is really long) in
excellent condition.

Now I don't want to get rid of my 1-ton because it is really rare and
since I do metal fab, that 1-ton suspension has been really useful.
I spent a lot of time and money over the last year replacing a lot of
parts on the truck.
What I want to do is bring the truck back to life.
I have to choose how to do that.
It currently has the Fuel Injected 22REC engine.
A good rebuilt one is around $1500-$1600.
A junkyard pulled engine is like $400-$700 as far as I can find.


snip

Have you checked those places in the Little Nickel that sell low mileage
engines from Japan?

I've only worked on small-block Chevy V-8's, so don't know much about
Toyotas, but IMO it would be easier out of the truck on a stand.
Also as well as the other tools mentioned an oil pump primer is good to use
before you fire it up,"a rebuild" the first time.

A word of warning though, a tranny with 150K miles on it might not last
long behind a new"rebuilt" engine. Although I've also heard Toyotas run
forever, so you can never tell.

Anyway, don't let it intimidate(sp?) you, once you tear into it and see how
everythings put together it's gravy train from there on.:-)

A good book on the engine is a good idea, but wouldn't be surprised if you
could find it all on the whirled why'd web.



Brett

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:28:42 GMT, "Brett"
wrote:

I've only worked on small-block Chevy V-8's, so don't know much about
Toyotas, but IMO it would be easier out of the truck on a stand.
Also as well as the other tools mentioned an oil pump primer is good to use
before you fire it up,"a rebuild" the first time.

Remember, the Toyota oil pump is on the crank. Fill it with heavy oil
on assembly, and fill the filter with light oil. Use a good engine
assembly lube (Lucas oil treetment works good, or use Moly) and you
will have oil pressure in about 5 or 6 cranks. Crank it without plugs
antil the pressure comes up, then put the plugs in, fire it up, and
hold it at 2000 rpm for a few minutes.

A word of warning though, a tranny with 150K miles on it might not last
long behind a new"rebuilt" engine. Although I've also heard Toyotas run
forever, so you can never tell.
Put a new input shaft bearing in while you have it apart. About 90% of
toyota standard trans problems start with the input bearing. Many then
show up as a countershaft bearing.

Anyway, don't let it intimidate(sp?) you, once you tear into it and see how
everythings put together it's gravy train from there on.:-)

A good book on the engine is a good idea, but wouldn't be surprised if you
could find it all on the whirled why'd web.



Brett

Oh, jezzus, I hear this alot. A low mileage '85 22R. 18
years old. From Japan, where they junk the cars after 3
years? Think about it.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

Ken Finney wrote:


Have you checked those places in the Little Nickel that sell low mileage
engines from Japan?

--
Remove X to reply

--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:

"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

In article , JR North
wrote:

Oh, jezzus, I hear this alot. A low mileage '85 22R. 18
years old. From Japan, where they junk the cars after 3
years? Think about it.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

Ken Finney wrote:


Have you checked those places in the Little Nickel that sell low mileage
engines from Japan?

In Japan you have to swap out your engine at 30,000 miles, Why?,
because they are insane.

These engines are then resold in the US as replacement engines for
about $600 - $800, however 20R and 22R engines made for use in Japan
are illegal in the US so you have to deal with a rebuilt US engine.

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
...
In article , JR North
wrote:

Oh, jezzus, I hear this alot. A low mileage '85 22R. 18
years old. From Japan, where they junk the cars after 3
years? Think about it.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

Ken Finney wrote:


Have you checked those places in the Little Nickel that sell low
mileage
engines from Japan?

In Japan you have to swap out your engine at 30,000 miles, Why?,
because they are insane.


Not insane, just different.

These engines are then resold in the US as replacement engines for
about $600 - $800, however 20R and 22R engines made for use in Japan
are illegal in the US so you have to deal with a rebuilt US engine.

Hadn't thought about that, but how would anyone know it wasn't a "US
engine"?

In article , Ken Finney
wrote:

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
...
In article , JR North
wrote:

Oh, jezzus, I hear this alot. A low mileage '85 22R. 18
years old. From Japan, where they junk the cars after 3
years? Think about it.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

Ken Finney wrote:


Have you checked those places in the Little Nickel that sell low
mileage
engines from Japan?

In Japan you have to swap out your engine at 30,000 miles, Why?,
because they are insane.


Not insane, just different.

These engines are then resold in the US as replacement engines for
about $600 - $800, however 20R and 22R engines made for use in Japan
are illegal in the US so you have to deal with a rebuilt US engine.

Hadn't thought about that, but how would anyone know it wasn't a "US
engine"?

I have no idea.
All I know is that they can't be had from any importer in the US.
Nobody, nada, nil, not a one, never to be had.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 01:01:37 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote:

In article , JR North
wrote:

Oh, jezzus, I hear this alot. A low mileage '85 22R. 18
years old. From Japan, where they junk the cars after 3
years? Think about it.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

Ken Finney wrote:


Have you checked those places in the Little Nickel that sell low mileage
engines from Japan?

In Japan you have to swap out your engine at 30,000 miles, Why?,
because they are insane.

These engines are then resold in the US as replacement engines for
about $600 - $800, however 20R and 22R engines made for use in Japan
are illegal in the US so you have to deal with a rebuilt US engine.
Not true.
The JDM 20R and 22R engines CAN be used in the states - but you must
use the US fuel and ignition systems. Older than '83 you don't need to
warry much about it either way - in most juristictions they are exempt
from test after 20 years.

In article , @ wrote:

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 01:01:37 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote:

In article , JR North
wrote:

Oh, jezzus, I hear this alot. A low mileage '85 22R. 18
years old. From Japan, where they junk the cars after 3
years? Think about it.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

Ken Finney wrote:


Have you checked those places in the Little Nickel that sell low mileage
engines from Japan?

In Japan you have to swap out your engine at 30,000 miles, Why?,
because they are insane.

These engines are then resold in the US as replacement engines for
about $600 - $800, however 20R and 22R engines made for use in Japan
are illegal in the US so you have to deal with a rebuilt US engine.
Not true.
The JDM 20R and 22R engines CAN be used in the states - but you must
use the US fuel and ignition systems. Older than '83 you don't need to
warry much about it either way - in most juristictions they are exempt
from test after 20 years.


Yes but where would you get one?
All the Japanese engine importers claim not to carry 22Rs.

In article , Ken Finney
wrote:

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
...
I tried posting this over at the Toyota truck newsgroup and got no
help, so back to RCM is it.


3 weeks ago my 85 Toyota 1-ton blew it's rod bearing.
Instead of replacing the engine again, I opted for another truck.
I got a 86 extra-cab, longbed (yes it has both and is really long) in
excellent condition.

Now I don't want to get rid of my 1-ton because it is really rare and
since I do metal fab, that 1-ton suspension has been really useful.
I spent a lot of time and money over the last year replacing a lot of
parts on the truck.
What I want to do is bring the truck back to life.
I have to choose how to do that.
It currently has the Fuel Injected 22REC engine.
A good rebuilt one is around $1500-$1600.
A junkyard pulled engine is like $400-$700 as far as I can find.


snip

Have you checked those places in the Little Nickel that sell low mileage
engines from Japan?



20R and 22R toyota engines are domestic only.
The Japanese versions are illegal in the US.
Believe me I have checked.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:58:47 GMT,
Ernie Leimkuhler wrote
in Msg.

20R and 22R toyota engines are domestic only.
The Japanese versions are illegal in the US.
Believe me I have checked.

In what way are they "illegal"?

--Daniel

--
"With me is nothing wrong! And with you?" (from r.a.m.p)

In article ,
says...
In article , Ken Finney
wrote:

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
...
I tried posting this over at the Toyota truck newsgroup and got no
help, so back to RCM is it.


3 weeks ago my 85 Toyota 1-ton blew it's rod bearing.
Instead of replacing the engine again, I opted for another truck.
I got a 86 extra-cab, longbed (yes it has both and is really long) in
excellent condition.

Now I don't want to get rid of my 1-ton because it is really rare and
since I do metal fab, that 1-ton suspension has been really useful.
I spent a lot of time and money over the last year replacing a lot of
parts on the truck.
What I want to do is bring the truck back to life.
I have to choose how to do that.
It currently has the Fuel Injected 22REC engine.
A good rebuilt one is around $1500-$1600.
A junkyard pulled engine is like $400-$700 as far as I can find.


snip

Have you checked those places in the Little Nickel that sell low mileage
engines from Japan?



20R and 22R toyota engines are domestic only.
The Japanese versions are illegal in the US.
Believe me I have checked.


You might want to check again. AFAIK, the only reason they would be
"illegal" is a failure to meet US emissions standards with JDM
accessories. If you're using only the JDM "long block" and installing US
approved intake, exhaust, and ECM, they should pass US emission standards
as easily as your old engine.

A "certified" shop might not install them because they aren't allowed to
install "non-certified" parts, but that doesn't make it illegal for *you*
to do it. As long as it passes all mandated emissions checks it can
hardly be an "illegal" vehicle.

Later,
Joe


Later,
Joe

In article , Joe
Kultgen wrote:

In article ,
says...
In article , Ken Finney
wrote:

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
...
I tried posting this over at the Toyota truck newsgroup and got no
help, so back to RCM is it.




snip

Have you checked those places in the Little Nickel that sell low mileage
engines from Japan?



20R and 22R toyota engines are domestic only.
The Japanese versions are illegal in the US.
Believe me I have checked.


You might want to check again. AFAIK, the only reason they would be
"illegal" is a failure to meet US emissions standards with JDM
accessories. If you're using only the JDM "long block" and installing US
approved intake, exhaust, and ECM, they should pass US emission standards
as easily as your old engine.

A "certified" shop might not install them because they aren't allowed to
install "non-certified" parts, but that doesn't make it illegal for *you*
to do it. As long as it passes all mandated emissions checks it can
hardly be an "illegal" vehicle.

Later,
Joe


Exactly how am I supposed to buy a Japanese 22R engine block from
Japan, when not a single engine importer handles them?

Do you know of some cheap way to buy an engine block from Japan that
hasn't been used since 1995?

In article , Ernie Leimkuhler says...

Exactly how am I supposed to buy a Japanese 22R engine block from
Japan, when not a single engine importer handles them?

THis sounds like one of those old stories that go something like:

"My brother-in-law knew this guy, his uncle had a friend
who knew how to buy those ww2 surplus jeeps, brand-new
still packed in cosmoline, for a hundred bucks. No
kidding, would I lie to you?"

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Pull it. You want to completely strip and clean the block
after a bearing failure anyway. If the block is damaged, you
may not be able to tell without a boil-out. 22R cranks are
plentiful, if you need one. The block might already be
punched out .030 from the previous rebuild. Measure the
bores before you order stuff.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:

I tried posting this over at the Toyota truck newsgroup and got no
help, so back to RCM is it.

3 weeks ago my 85 Toyota 1-ton blew it's rod bearing.
Instead of replacing the engine again, I opted for another truck.
I got a 86 extra-cab, longbed (yes it has both and is really long) in
excellent condition.

Now I don't want to get rid of my 1-ton because it is really rare and
since I do metal fab, that 1-ton suspension has been really useful.
I spent a lot of time and money over the last year replacing a lot of
parts on the truck.
What I want to do is bring the truck back to life.
I have to choose how to do that.
It currently has the Fuel Injected 22REC engine.
A good rebuilt one is around $1500-$1600.
A junkyard pulled engine is like $400-$700 as far as I can find.

There is the option of a Buick or Chevy small-block V-6, but it just
looks like too much trouble.

I am thinking about rebuilding the engine myself.
I have a metal fab shop, and since I have the '86 to drive for now there
is no immediate hurry.

On the '85 I have done everything except the engine itself,
I have been leery of actually getting inside the engine without
training, or at least supervision.

I can buy a rebuild kit for around $400, but is it better to rebuild
the engine in the truck or on a bench?
The tranny was last done about 150,000 miles ago, but can't be tested
until I get a working engine on it.
The truck has 265,000 on it.
The factory engine died at 185,000, and I got about 80,000 out of the
rebuilt one I bought 7 years ago.
I have had this truck since 89, and it has been cared for, but also
USED a lot.

I love this truck.
There is some question whether the block is worth rebuilding since it
might be too damaged.
I figure I could get a pulled block from a local junkyard, and just
rebuild the engine on a bench.

Thoughts?

Also what is the best book on rebuilding a 22R?

I am also planning on converting the 1-ton to a flatbed.
It won't have the duallies, but that is fine.
I have wanted a flatbed really bad over the last 2 years, since I
started building a lot of heavy steel staircases.
Having one truck with an overhead rack and one with a flatbed is a
dream of mine.
I am going to add some booster springs to my 86 to take it to a 3/4 ton
suspension.

--
Remove X to reply

--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:

"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

I tried posting this over at the Toyota truck newsgroup and got no
help, so back to RCM is it.


3 weeks ago my 85 Toyota 1-ton blew it's rod bearing.
Instead of replacing the engine again, I opted for another truck.
I got a 86 extra-cab, longbed (yes it has both and is really long) in
excellent condition.

Now I don't want to get rid of my 1-ton because it is really rare and
since I do metal fab, that 1-ton suspension has been really useful.
I spent a lot of time and money over the last year replacing a lot of
parts on the truck.
What I want to do is bring the truck back to life.
I have to choose how to do that.
It currently has the Fuel Injected 22REC engine.
A good rebuilt one is around $1500-$1600.
A junkyard pulled engine is like $400-$700 as far as I can find.


There is the option of a Buick or Chevy small-block V-6, but it just
looks like too much trouble.

I am thinking about rebuilding the engine myself.
I have a metal fab shop, and since I have the '86 to drive for now there
is no immediate hurry.

On the '85 I have done everything except the engine itself,
I have been leery of actually getting inside the engine without
training, or at least supervision.

I can buy a rebuild kit for around $400, but is it better to rebuild
the engine in the truck or on a bench?
The tranny was last done about 150,000 miles ago, but can't be tested
until I get a working engine on it.
The truck has 265,000 on it.
The factory engine died at 185,000, and I got about 80,000 out of the
rebuilt one I bought 7 years ago.
I have had this truck since 89, and it has been cared for, but also
USED a lot.

I love this truck.
There is some question whether the block is worth rebuilding since it
might be too damaged.
I figure I could get a pulled block from a local junkyard, and just
rebuild the engine on a bench.

Thoughts?

Also what is the best book on rebuilding a 22R?

I am also planning on converting the 1-ton to a flatbed.
It won't have the duallies, but that is fine.
I have wanted a flatbed really bad over the last 2 years, since I
started building a lot of heavy steel staircases.
Having one truck with an overhead rack and one with a flatbed is a
dream of mine.
I am going to add some booster springs to my 86 to take it to a 3/4 ton
suspension.
I don't know, but if you are anything like me, I already have too many
items on my plate - and if you got 80,000 miles from a $1600 good
rebuilt engine - thats 2 cents/mile - I would go with the $1600, bolt
it up and be on my way to doing something more important.
Ken.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 01:16:09 GMT, (Kenneth W. Sterling) wrote:
I don't know, but if you are anything like me, I already have too many
items on my plate - and if you got 80,000 miles from a $1600 good
rebuilt engine - thats 2 cents/mile - I would go with the $1600, bolt
it up and be on my way to doing something more important.
Ken.

I have to agree. As much as I love building up hotrod engines
(I have a Chevy small block on the engine stand right now),
unless you have experience, or a good bit of otherwise idle
time, you'll be dollars and days ahead just buying a rebuilt
engine, and getting on with your regular line of business.

Gary

Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:

I tried posting this over at the Toyota truck newsgroup and got no
help, so back to RCM is it.


3 weeks ago my 85 Toyota 1-ton blew it's rod bearing.
snip
What I want to do is bring the truck back to life.
I have to choose how to do that.
It currently has the Fuel Injected 22REC engine.
A good rebuilt one is around $1500-$1600.
A junkyard pulled engine is like $400-$700 as far as I can find.
snip

I am thinking about rebuilding the engine myself.
I have a metal fab shop, and since I have the '86 to drive for now there
is no immediate hurry.

On the '85 I have done everything except the engine itself,
I have been leery of actually getting inside the engine without
training, or at least supervision.

I can buy a rebuild kit for around $400, but is it better to rebuild
the engine in the truck or on a bench?
The tranny was last done about 150,000 miles ago, but can't be tested
until I get a working engine on it.
The truck has 265,000 on it.
The factory engine died at 185,000, and I got about 80,000 out of the
rebuilt one I bought 7 years ago.
I have had this truck since 89, and it has been cared for, but also
USED a lot.
snipped
Hi Ernie;

I'd say rebuild it. Make SURE the rebuild kit has Felpro gaskets! The
World / Beck Arnold / Joes Taco Stand and Gasket Works... head gaskets
are pure crap. Double check that the plenum to head gasket and upper to
lower plenum gaskets are correct, it isn't unusual to find the gasket
provided isn't correct for these two places. Usually a water jacket is
either not gasketed or is blocked off. No idea why so many FelPro kits
that are supposed to be for a specific year get this wrong, but I've
seen it with kits for the Toyota 2TC, 3AC, 22R, and 22RE engines. Saw
the same thing with the one for a Suzuki Samarai once also.

You can probably have the crank ground. If the shop wants the block to
verify fit, that's fine. When you get it back though, tear it back down
and verify the sizes with plastigage and verify all the grinding grit is
really out of the oil passages in the crank. I've found grit more than
once in the crank "installed" with the new bearings in the block by the
machine shop. No excuse for it, but something that many shops just
aren't careful about.

The only really "special" tools that come to mind that might not be
already in a well equipped shop a

Ridge Reamer (may be needed, may not)
Piston Ring Pliers - maybe 10 bucks
Piston Ring Compressor (for putting the pistons back in the bores)
Seems they're around $20. The tapered ring style are really nice, the
style with the ratching steel band work OK too. Just oil the ring
compressor well before tapping the pistons through.

Bore Hone - to put the cross hatch on the bore. If you have to have the
block bored the shop that does the work should do this. Another $10
bucks. Use a low speed and plenty of kerosene or WD40. I like using an
air drill for this, the speed is low enough to get a good cross hatch
without having to move like a spastic hamster having a seizure.

Valve Spring Compressor. As the head will be off the old simple large C
clamp style works fine for this engine - maybe $30 or so. Have a clean
area when using this, the valve keepers love to drop off when you least
expect them too.

And here's the weird one - a long T handled metric hex key to get the
cap screw out that holds the plenum assy to the head. I have the Blue
Point set, they are just long enough. There isn't enough room to use a
hex bit on a ratchet on this engine, the only thing that works is the
long T handle. Sorry I don't recall the size, but the Blue Point set
was only around $16 from the Snap On truck.

A few lengths of plastigage in the 1 to 4 thou range, don't think this
engine needs the thicker stuff. Maybe a buck a length, one or two
lengths will probably do the entire job. The PlastiGage I've bought for
this size has been green, don't know if that's still the case.

The Bentley manual is excellent, the Haynes is pretty good for this
engine. The Chiltons wasn't so hot. Good enough to give most of the
info to a guy who has rebuilt a lot of engines, not enough info for a
first timer.

You may need to turn some seal drivers if you don't have the Snap On or
Mac seal driver kit. I cloned my neighbors set. The dimensions are in
the Snap On catalog, they make doing a rebuild quicker. I've used
pieces of pipe faced cleanly quite a few times before making a full set.

You HAVE to have a good torque wrench, most likely you already do.

I'm surprised you lost a bearing with this low a mileage, and very
surprised you have already had the engine done once. Not using Castrol
by any chance are you? The engines I've torn down that were run on
Havoline or Valvoline are usually really clean inside, the ones on
Castrol are a varnished mess.

Do the job on an engine stand, trying to do it in the truck is more pain
than the cost of an engine stand. It's just so much easier on a stand.

Buy or borrow an engine crane if you don't have one. Don't know how
much they rent for where you are, around here a weeks rental was about
the cost of just buying the darn thing. Once you have one you'll wonder
how you lived without it.

Check the clutch while it's all apart, and go ahead and replace the
throw out and pilot bearings while it's an easy job.

Don't laugh off the instructions to protect the rod ends while
installing the pistons, more than one crank has been scored by someone
who thought that putting bits of vacuum hose over the threads is for
sissies :-)

I'd go ahead and do a valve job while it's all apart, at least to the
extent of inspecting the valves and guides, lapping the valves and
verifying they seat correctly. The rebuild kit should include the valve
seals. Check the valve spring free and compresed heights while you're
at it.

Replace all of the vacuum hoses while it's an easy job. Don't use the
no name import stuff, CarQuest brand is made by Gates if you can't get
the red spooled Gates from your local supplier. I buy it by the 50 foot
spool, it's cheaper than by the foot.

Not really a tough job, just a few minor skills to add to the
collection. The first rebuild is always a source of apprehension. I
was really scared that I'd screw up completely the first time I did one.
Once you've done one, you wonder what you were worried about. My
first rebuild went almost 100K miles when the vehicle got totalled by a
dork running a red light. The next one went 300K miles when I donated
the car to the local VoTech, still running well but in a body going to
hell in a hurry and an auto tranny starting to slip. I'm a computer
nerd by trade, not a professional mechanic.

Toyota engines are some of the easier rebuilds, the castings are nicely
made and well machined and the tolerances are close but not silly tight
as on a Samarai engine. Almost as easy as a Farmall engine, but the
parts weight a lot less :-)

A nightmare rebuild is a '85 Chevy 2.8 liter - a true POS design.

Cheers,
Stan

Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:

I tried posting this over at the Toyota truck newsgroup and got no
help, so back to RCM is it.

3 weeks ago my 85 Toyota 1-ton blew it's rod bearing.
Instead of replacing the engine again, I opted for another truck.
I got a 86 extra-cab, longbed (yes it has both and is really long) in
excellent condition.

Now I don't want to get rid of my 1-ton because it is really rare and
since I do metal fab, that 1-ton suspension has been really useful.
I spent a lot of time and money over the last year replacing a lot of
parts on the truck.
What I want to do is bring the truck back to life.
I have to choose how to do that.
It currently has the Fuel Injected 22REC engine.
A good rebuilt one is around $1500-$1600.
A junkyard pulled engine is like $400-$700 as far as I can find.

There is the option of a Buick or Chevy small-block V-6, but it just
looks like too much trouble.

I am thinking about rebuilding the engine myself.
I have a metal fab shop, and since I have the '86 to drive for now there
is no immediate hurry.

On the '85 I have done everything except the engine itself,
I have been leery of actually getting inside the engine without
training, or at least supervision.

I can buy a rebuild kit for around $400, but is it better to rebuild
the engine in the truck or on a bench?
The tranny was last done about 150,000 miles ago, but can't be tested
until I get a working engine on it.
The truck has 265,000 on it.
The factory engine died at 185,000, and I got about 80,000 out of the
rebuilt one I bought 7 years ago.
I have had this truck since 89, and it has been cared for, but also
USED a lot.

I love this truck.
There is some question whether the block is worth rebuilding since it
might be too damaged.
I figure I could get a pulled block from a local junkyard, and just
rebuild the engine on a bench.

Thoughts?

Also what is the best book on rebuilding a 22R?

I am also planning on converting the 1-ton to a flatbed.
It won't have the duallies, but that is fine.
I have wanted a flatbed really bad over the last 2 years, since I
started building a lot of heavy steel staircases.
Having one truck with an overhead rack and one with a flatbed is a
dream of mine.
I am going to add some booster springs to my 86 to take it to a 3/4 ton
suspension.

Based (loosely) on 398 000 kilometers on my Mazda B2000...

Pull the engine. You can only get half assed acsess to anything with
the engine in the truck.

Did the rod blow up or just eat a bearing? If the rod did not blow,
there should be no damage to the block.

Decide how cheap you want to be. I'm cheap. I buy my parts at the
U-pick wreckers, and I know pretty much what models I can pillage to
make my truck run for the basics.

Get a Haynes Manual or Chilton's Guide for your trucks. Some of the
info is lame or not very useful, but lots of good info in either. I
prefer Haynes, YMMV. CHEAP!

Is the price quoted before or after the core charge or exchange on your
block? Or is it a cash and carry price? Depending on the core value, it
may be a no-brainer.

Con rod bearings are a relatively cheap fix. Likely just a grind on the
crank and new bearings. The (babbit?) layer on the rod bearing gets
eaten, the shell usually keeps the rod from taking a serious beating.
When I did mine, I was able to get the crank ground, purchase the
bearings, and a head gasket for well under $400 CDN. Some judicious
cleanup while it was apart was done, but no real heavy dissassembly and
it now has about 100,000 km since the last blowup. The job can be done
without removing the head, if you want to be real cheap.
Count on the amount of time spent hauling your parts to and from the
machine shops if you want the whole engine done, and factor that into
costing it out, as well as your time rebuilding the rest of it. In my
experience, automotive machine shops are one of those places that do not
seem to charge near what they are worth. If you can be earning more
money than you are saving by doing the work yourself, you may be biting
yourself on the arse there.
My experience has been that bore wear after 250,000 kilometers was
negligible. YMMV. Inspect and measure while the crank is being ground.
Use the day or two that the crank is out, to clean up the head, decarbon
the ring grooves, and whatever else seems to need to be done. Have a
good look at the head for cracks between the plug and valves. If you
removed the head, that is.

Fear nothing! It's a mechanical device fercryinoutloud! It's not Brain
Science, it's rocket surgery!

I would be calling every number in the phone book as relates to enginge
rebuilders or automotive machine shops and checking prices. Here in
Edmonton I can get a warranteed 350 chev for a lot less than I could
rebuild it for. All I have to do is bring my engine in for exchange, pay
the man, and drive home to start the install. Same price with a wait if
I want my own engine done top to bottom.

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:49:05 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote:


I am thinking about rebuilding the engine myself.
I have a metal fab shop, and since I have the '86 to drive for now there
is no immediate hurry.

On the '85 I have done everything except the engine itself,
I have been leery of actually getting inside the engine without
training, or at least supervision.

Shouldn't be to hard for someone like you. It's all in the details
which I know you're good at.

I can buy a rebuild kit for around $400, but is it better to rebuild
the engine in the truck or on a bench?

Engine stand without a doubt.

The tranny was last done about 150,000 miles ago, but can't be tested
until I get a working engine on it.

If it was shifting good when it quit don't worry about it. The weak
link in these transmissions is the synchro's.

The truck has 265,000 on it.
The factory engine died at 185,000, and I got about 80,000 out of the
rebuilt one I bought 7 years ago.
I have had this truck since 89, and it has been cared for, but also
USED a lot.

That seems like awfully short life for these engines. Mine had over
400,000 on it when I got rid of it (to my nephew who shortly managed
to tear up the synchro in the transmission and then roll the whole
truck).

I love this truck.
There is some question whether the block is worth rebuilding since it
might be too damaged.
I figure I could get a pulled block from a local junkyard, and just
rebuild the engine on a bench.

That's a tough call. You won't know till you tear it down.


Also what is the best book on rebuilding a 22R?

I've got a 81 factory service manual that's your's for the shipping.
It won't cover the fuel injection but the rest should be pretty much
the same. I've not found anything better than the factory manuals for
many things. This one is pretty good.

I've also got a Chiltons but it's not very good.

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:49:05 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote:

I tried posting this over at the Toyota truck newsgroup and got no
help, so back to RCM is it.


3 weeks ago my 85 Toyota 1-ton blew it's rod bearing.
Instead of replacing the engine again, I opted for another truck.
I got a 86 extra-cab, longbed (yes it has both and is really long) in
excellent condition.

Now I don't want to get rid of my 1-ton because it is really rare and
since I do metal fab, that 1-ton suspension has been really useful.
I spent a lot of time and money over the last year replacing a lot of
parts on the truck.
What I want to do is bring the truck back to life.
I have to choose how to do that.
It currently has the Fuel Injected 22REC engine.
A good rebuilt one is around $1500-$1600.
A junkyard pulled engine is like $400-$700 as far as I can find.


There is the option of a Buick or Chevy small-block V-6, but it just
looks like too much trouble.

I am thinking about rebuilding the engine myself.
I have a metal fab shop, and since I have the '86 to drive for now there
is no immediate hurry.

On the '85 I have done everything except the engine itself,
I have been leery of actually getting inside the engine without
training, or at least supervision.

I can buy a rebuild kit for around $400, but is it better to rebuild
the engine in the truck or on a bench?

Definitely do it on the bench. You need to pull the crank - and doing
that in the truck is not worth the aggravation.
The tranny was last done about 150,000 miles ago, but can't be tested
until I get a working engine on it.
The truck has 265,000 on it.
The factory engine died at 185,000, and I got about 80,000 out of the
rebuilt one I bought 7 years ago.

rebuild it right, and you should get another 185,000 out of it.

I have had this truck since 89, and it has been cared for, but also
USED a lot.

I love this truck.
There is some question whether the block is worth rebuilding since it
might be too damaged.

You WILL need the crank reground, or most likely replaced. If the
mains did not spin, and the rod did not smash the block, the block MAY
be re-useable, but will likely require reboring - and having already
been rebuilt once, it may be close to the limit.
I figure I could get a pulled block from a local junkyard, and just
rebuild the engine on a bench.

Thoughts?

Find a good low mileage Celica? - much easier to find than the truck,
and uses the same engine.

Also what is the best book on rebuilding a 22R?
The Toyota engine manual, if you can find it.

I am also planning on converting the 1-ton to a flatbed.
It won't have the duallies, but that is fine.
I have wanted a flatbed really bad over the last 2 years, since I
started building a lot of heavy steel staircases.
Having one truck with an overhead rack and one with a flatbed is a
dream of mine.
I am going to add some booster springs to my 86 to take it to a 3/4 ton
suspension.

Out on the "left coast" a lot of Toyota cab and chassis units were
converted into mini motorhomes. Should be able to find a beater with a
good 1 ton HD rear end you can get cheap and bolt on - duallys and
all.

You might want to find the parts and what they cost first. Toyota parts are
not cheap.
michael

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote in message
...
I tried posting this over at the Toyota truck newsgroup and got no
help, so back to RCM is it.


3 weeks ago my 85 Toyota 1-ton blew it's rod bearing.
Instead of replacing the engine again, I opted for another truck.
I got a 86 extra-cab, longbed (yes it has both and is really long) in
excellent condition.

Now I don't want to get rid of my 1-ton because it is really rare and
since I do metal fab, that 1-ton suspension has been really useful.
I spent a lot of time and money over the last year replacing a lot of
parts on the truck.
What I want to do is bring the truck back to life.
I have to choose how to do that.
It currently has the Fuel Injected 22REC engine.
A good rebuilt one is around $1500-$1600.
A junkyard pulled engine is like $400-$700 as far as I can find.


There is the option of a Buick or Chevy small-block V-6, but it just
looks like too much trouble.

I am thinking about rebuilding the engine myself.
I have a metal fab shop, and since I have the '86 to drive for now there
is no immediate hurry.

On the '85 I have done everything except the engine itself,
I have been leery of actually getting inside the engine without
training, or at least supervision.

I can buy a rebuild kit for around $400, but is it better to rebuild
the engine in the truck or on a bench?
The tranny was last done about 150,000 miles ago, but can't be tested
until I get a working engine on it.
The truck has 265,000 on it.
The factory engine died at 185,000, and I got about 80,000 out of the
rebuilt one I bought 7 years ago.
I have had this truck since 89, and it has been cared for, but also
USED a lot.

I love this truck.
There is some question whether the block is worth rebuilding since it
might be too damaged.
I figure I could get a pulled block from a local junkyard, and just
rebuild the engine on a bench.

Thoughts?

Also what is the best book on rebuilding a 22R?

I am also planning on converting the 1-ton to a flatbed.
It won't have the duallies, but that is fine.
I have wanted a flatbed really bad over the last 2 years, since I
started building a lot of heavy steel staircases.
Having one truck with an overhead rack and one with a flatbed is a
dream of mine.
I am going to add some booster springs to my 86 to take it to a 3/4 ton
suspension.

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:49:05 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote something
.......and in reply I say!:

I am no mechanic. Just a DIY nut with lots of motors.

I tried posting this over at the Toyota truck newsgroup and got no
help, so back to RCM is it.


3 weeks ago my 85 Toyota 1-ton blew it's rod bearing.
Instead of replacing the engine again, I opted for another truck.
I got a 86 extra-cab, longbed (yes it has both and is really long) in
excellent condition.

Now I don't want to get rid of my 1-ton because it is really rare and
since I do metal fab, that 1-ton suspension has been really useful.
I spent a lot of time and money over the last year replacing a lot of
parts on the truck.
What I want to do is bring the truck back to life.
I have to choose how to do that.
It currently has the Fuel Injected 22REC engine.
A good rebuilt one is around $1500-$1600.
A junkyard pulled engine is like $400-$700 as far as I can find.


There is the option of a Buick or Chevy small-block V-6, but it just
looks like too much trouble.

Don't know about your insurance people, but when I looked into this
they were pretty leery of any mods.

I am thinking about rebuilding the engine myself.
I have a metal fab shop, and since I have the '86 to drive for now there
is no immediate hurry.

On the '85 I have done everything except the engine itself,
I have been leery of actually getting inside the engine without
training, or at least supervision.

My first rebuild. I did up my Stout petrol motor years ago. I was
nervous. I had had the top off a motor bike engine, but that was it.

If you are a "rebuild virgin", get another old engine and do that up.
That's what I did. I got an old junked motor, and pulled it down, and
built it up. I replaced no parts, but felt happier about diving in
after that. I had seen where everything went.

It was much later that I blew up the Stout motor by not re-seating the
distributor properly on a "minor" (read less care!) job. No oil pump
drive. Defective oil light. D'OH.

So that was why I rebuilt that engine twice G.

When you first want to start the engine, make sure all the warning
lights are red, before you ever turn that motor over!

One thing. I have told this against myself before. Don't try to assess
the situation. Be the Meccano man who disassembles and reassembles. I
bought all the right gear: micrometers, inner and outer; dial gauges;
you name it. I was only going to "do the necessary work" to save
money. I took all sorts of measurements and had bugger all idea what I
was looking for. I took the motor bits down to the engineering shop.
The guy stuck his finger in the bore and scratched the ring ridges
with his nail..."hmmmm 30 thou "(or whatever) "or so I reckon"....
"hmmmm....two oversized on the big end" etc etc....Bah! They did all
the machining, and sold me a rebuild kit to fit.


I can buy a rebuild kit for around $400, but is it better to rebuild
the engine in the truck or on a bench?

Bench. Bench.Bench. Did I say Bench?

If this is a single-cab, then lifting the engine should be easy.

Rebuilding on a bench is:
- clean
- controllable
- a joy
- getting the engine in and out is a PITA. Working on the motor
itself on the bench is fascinating and almost meditative. I did the
motor, gearbox and clutch. I still remember doing it with joy. I had
never touched any of these before. Took my time (like you I had other
transport). An engine, and also a gearbox, is a wonderful thing.
- working in-vehicle is terrible.

Maybe a rotating engine stand would be the next step. But have a clean
bench right next door. _Lots_ of boxes for bits. At least 20-30 boxes.
Each to be labelled. Sounds anal, but it can make things easier.
Probably the better you get, the less you need the boxes G

The tranny was last done about 150,000 miles ago, but can't be tested
until I get a working engine on it.

Assuming manual. No crunches at gearchange? No grumbling or whining?

But definitely look at doing the clutch and flywheel while the engine
is out.

The truck has 265,000 on it.
The factory engine died at 185,000, and I got about 80,000 out of the
rebuilt one I bought 7 years ago.
I have had this truck since 89, and it has been cared for, but also
USED a lot.

I love this truck.

AH. Now THERE'S the problem G


There is some question whether the block is worth rebuilding since it
might be too damaged.

By what? The engine failure, or a weakness of the block? Whatver, this
is eomsthing you can only tell when you get it down to the engineering
shop. maybe point out that _you_ have a source of blocks, so thaye are
not tempted?

I figure I could get a pulled block from a local junkyard, and just
rebuild the engine on a bench.

I ask because my Dyna (diesel) may well have a cracked head. It's
really hard to get an uncracked head secondhand If I get one welded up
it may crack again. New ones cost a fortune, but I thought I had to go
that way. Then it occurred to me that since it's impossible to get a
secondhand uncracked head, then there are probably dozens of these
motors toodling around with cracked heads, including maybe mine, happy
as larry. G Sorry.I digress.


Thoughts?

Also what is the best book on rebuilding a 22R?

Genuine Toyota manual. My Dyna one is amazing. The Stout one was also
very good. If you have trouble try www.jensales.com.
************************************************** ****************************************
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.
The rest sit around and make snide comments.

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music
Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email
!!
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_/ )
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_//- \__/

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:49:05 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote:


Now I don't want to get rid of my 1-ton because it is really rare and
since I do metal fab, that 1-ton suspension has been really useful.
I spent a lot of time and money over the last year replacing a lot of
parts on the truck.
What I want to do is bring the truck back to life.

Then you need to do a complete and brutally honest inspection of the
truck- nothing like dumping a ton of money into the engine only to
have the electrical system go up in flames. Seen it.

Any pickup that's worked for a living and has that many miles on it
will likely have started to sag in the middle- it's inevitable- and is
probably getting ready for some big-bucks front end work. Not to
mention dried out rubber body seals and brake hoses and a lot of other
stuff that just ages.

I love this truck.

Never love something that can't love you back.

If you do decide to rebuild the 22R, you should replace the timing
chain- when they get old, they break suddenly and smash the expensive
timing case casting to smithereens.

-Carl