At a vacation cabin in the mountains , I get water from a nearby spring.
At the spring I have a reservoir, and a submersible pump is hung vertically
in that reservoir. The system has worked well for many years. The pump is
"about" a 1 hp rating, but it could be as big as 1 1/2 hp.

Inside the cabin, I have a pressure tank, and a pressure switch by Pumptrol.
My guess is that the tank itself is also a Pumptrol brand, but I do know
that it is the bladder type. I don't recall if the pressure tank has ever
been replaced or if the bladder has ever been pumped with air. Even if it
has, it has been more than 20 years. (We only use this cabin for a total of
ten weeks a year, spread over about 4 trips). I drain and winterize the
system at the end of the winter trips.

On the very last day of a recent trip, I had some problems in getting enough
water and water pressure, and I am trying to get some ideas as to what the
problem may be so that when I go back I can properly assess the situation
myself and at least be able to help my plumber to troubleshoot the
situation.

Here are the symptons and related facts:

1. The pressure control switch is set for 30 psi low to 60 psi high. It
also has a "low pressure" pump-safety setting, set at 20 psi. (Again,
please note that this system and these settings have worked well for many
years).

2. The first thing that I noticed was that the water would cut off once the
pressure reached the 20 psi low pressure level. So, I would have to
manually reset the switch, and manually hold it to the on position until the
pressure reached about 25 psi, at which time the switch would take over
and the pump would continue.

3. I can't give exact "time" parameters, but normally I would say that it
might take 1-2 minutes for the pressure to go from 30 psi to 60 psi and
shut off. But on this last night before we left, it might take 7-8 minutes
to go from the low to to high setting. During this "climb", I notice that
the gradual rise in pressure was not "even," meaning that it would rise for
a bit, and then seem to hesitate at one pressure level for a minute or so,
and then take off again and rise at a much quicker rate.

4. The "source" in the resevoir is fine, so we have plenty of water at the
source.

5. My pump is wired with 220 v, and I was able to check the voltage at the
pressure switch relay, and I have verified that the pump is getting the full
220v, as there is about 110 volts on each side of the wire **going** to the
pump.

6. From the brief observations that I could make before I left, I have
concluded that I either have a problem with my pump or with the pressure
tank. For some reason that I can't quite explain, I have thought more that
it might be a problem with the tank, and that perhaps it needs recharging
with air. I suppose that I lean toward this conclusion because it seems
that my water pressure is erratic as the pump pushes water, and I wonder if
this is a sympton of a bladder that has lost its air, and the decreased
ability to keep steady pressure on the system.


7. There is some type of plug fitting on the top and the side of the tank,
and I know these are the fittings where one must "measure" the air pressure,
and refill the unit. I don't know which is which, and I don't know what type
of fitting one has to have to make the measurement and the refill if needed.
The only type of pump that I have is a bicycle pump, and I assume that I
would have to have special equipment for a recharge, or at least have a
special fitting.

8. I assume that the pump has a check-valve, but I watched the pressure to
see if I was losing water, but it appears that it holds pressure fine (with
nothing being used in the cabin of course). From this, I doubt that the
check valve is allowing water to escape and limiting pressure buildup.

---------------------------

Questions--

What is the most likely culprit, the pump or the tank?

Is there an easy way to test the pressure tank ?

Is it hard to recharge the tank with air? What would I need to do this?

Is it very possible that the pump impeller is partially clogged, causing
erratic pumping action?

Is it more likely that the pump motor itself is defective, or the impeller,
if I do in fact have a pump problem ?

--------------------------

Please make any comments to tell me if I am on the right track, and what I
could do for further testing myself to see if I can troubleshoot the problem
and possibly even fix it myself. I am not very mechanically inclined, but
I do like to know how things like this work, so that I can make minor
adjustments and/or at least be able to give good info to my plumber at that
location.

Thanks in advance for any help that anyone can give on this !!!


--James---

I wonder if the problem may be the foot valve on the intake. If it has been
there 20 years, it probably needs replacement.
Charging the tank is easy with an air compressor, just like pumping up a
tire. You probably want to put about 30 psi in it. It should be a little
lower than the low setting on the pressure switch.

"James Nipper" wrote in message
news





At a vacation cabin in the mountains , I get water from a nearby spring.
At the spring I have a reservoir, and a submersible pump is hung
vertically
in that reservoir. The system has worked well for many years. The pump is
"about" a 1 hp rating, but it could be as big as 1 1/2 hp.

Inside the cabin, I have a pressure tank, and a pressure switch by
Pumptrol.
My guess is that the tank itself is also a Pumptrol brand, but I do know
that it is the bladder type. I don't recall if the pressure tank has ever
been replaced or if the bladder has ever been pumped with air. Even if it
has, it has been more than 20 years. (We only use this cabin for a total
of
ten weeks a year, spread over about 4 trips). I drain and winterize the
system at the end of the winter trips.

On the very last day of a recent trip, I had some problems in getting
enough
water and water pressure, and I am trying to get some ideas as to what the
problem may be so that when I go back I can properly assess the situation
myself and at least be able to help my plumber to troubleshoot the
situation.

Here are the symptons and related facts:

1. The pressure control switch is set for 30 psi low to 60 psi high. It
also has a "low pressure" pump-safety setting, set at 20 psi. (Again,
please note that this system and these settings have worked well for many
years).

2. The first thing that I noticed was that the water would cut off once
the
pressure reached the 20 psi low pressure level. So, I would have to
manually reset the switch, and manually hold it to the on position until
the
pressure reached about 25 psi, at which time the switch would take over
and the pump would continue.

3. I can't give exact "time" parameters, but normally I would say that it
might take 1-2 minutes for the pressure to go from 30 psi to 60 psi and
shut off. But on this last night before we left, it might take 7-8
minutes
to go from the low to to high setting. During this "climb", I notice
that
the gradual rise in pressure was not "even," meaning that it would rise
for
a bit, and then seem to hesitate at one pressure level for a minute or so,
and then take off again and rise at a much quicker rate.

4. The "source" in the resevoir is fine, so we have plenty of water at
the
source.

5. My pump is wired with 220 v, and I was able to check the voltage at
the
pressure switch relay, and I have verified that the pump is getting the
full
220v, as there is about 110 volts on each side of the wire **going** to
the
pump.

6. From the brief observations that I could make before I left, I have
concluded that I either have a problem with my pump or with the pressure
tank. For some reason that I can't quite explain, I have thought more
that
it might be a problem with the tank, and that perhaps it needs recharging
with air. I suppose that I lean toward this conclusion because it seems
that my water pressure is erratic as the pump pushes water, and I wonder
if
this is a sympton of a bladder that has lost its air, and the decreased
ability to keep steady pressure on the system.


7. There is some type of plug fitting on the top and the side of the tank,
and I know these are the fittings where one must "measure" the air
pressure,
and refill the unit. I don't know which is which, and I don't know what
type
of fitting one has to have to make the measurement and the refill if
needed.
The only type of pump that I have is a bicycle pump, and I assume that I
would have to have special equipment for a recharge, or at least have a
special fitting.

8. I assume that the pump has a check-valve, but I watched the pressure to
see if I was losing water, but it appears that it holds pressure fine
(with
nothing being used in the cabin of course). From this, I doubt that the
check valve is allowing water to escape and limiting pressure buildup.

---------------------------

Questions--

What is the most likely culprit, the pump or the tank?

Is there an easy way to test the pressure tank ?

Is it hard to recharge the tank with air? What would I need to do this?

Is it very possible that the pump impeller is partially clogged, causing
erratic pumping action?

Is it more likely that the pump motor itself is defective, or the
impeller,
if I do in fact have a pump problem ?

--------------------------

Please make any comments to tell me if I am on the right track, and what I
could do for further testing myself to see if I can troubleshoot the
problem
and possibly even fix it myself. I am not very mechanically inclined,
but
I do like to know how things like this work, so that I can make minor
adjustments and/or at least be able to give good info to my plumber at
that
location.

Thanks in advance for any help that anyone can give on this !!!


--James---

"James Nipper" wrote in message
news





At a vacation cabin in the mountains , I get water from a nearby spring.
At the spring I have a reservoir, and a submersible pump is hung
vertically
in that reservoir. The system has worked well for many years. The pump is
"about" a 1 hp rating, but it could be as big as 1 1/2 hp.

Inside the cabin, I have a pressure tank, and a pressure switch by
Pumptrol.
My guess is that the tank itself is also a Pumptrol brand, but I do know
that it is the bladder type. I don't recall if the pressure tank has ever
been replaced or if the bladder has ever been pumped with air. Even if it
has, it has been more than 20 years. (We only use this cabin for a total
of
ten weeks a year, spread over about 4 trips). I drain and winterize the
system at the end of the winter trips.

On the very last day of a recent trip, I had some problems in getting
enough
water and water pressure, and I am trying to get some ideas as to what the
problem may be so that when I go back I can properly assess the situation
myself and at least be able to help my plumber to troubleshoot the
situation.

Here are the symptons and related facts:

1. The pressure control switch is set for 30 psi low to 60 psi high. It
also has a "low pressure" pump-safety setting, set at 20 psi. (Again,
please note that this system and these settings have worked well for many
years).

2. The first thing that I noticed was that the water would cut off once
the
pressure reached the 20 psi low pressure level. So, I would have to
manually reset the switch, and manually hold it to the on position until
the
pressure reached about 25 psi, at which time the switch would take over
and the pump would continue.

3. I can't give exact "time" parameters, but normally I would say that it
might take 1-2 minutes for the pressure to go from 30 psi to 60 psi and
shut off. But on this last night before we left, it might take 7-8
minutes
to go from the low to to high setting. During this "climb", I notice
that
the gradual rise in pressure was not "even," meaning that it would rise
for
a bit, and then seem to hesitate at one pressure level for a minute or so,
and then take off again and rise at a much quicker rate.

4. The "source" in the resevoir is fine, so we have plenty of water at
the
source.

5. My pump is wired with 220 v, and I was able to check the voltage at
the
pressure switch relay, and I have verified that the pump is getting the
full
220v, as there is about 110 volts on each side of the wire **going** to
the
pump.

6. From the brief observations that I could make before I left, I have
concluded that I either have a problem with my pump or with the pressure
tank. For some reason that I can't quite explain, I have thought more
that
it might be a problem with the tank, and that perhaps it needs recharging
with air. I suppose that I lean toward this conclusion because it seems
that my water pressure is erratic as the pump pushes water, and I wonder
if
this is a sympton of a bladder that has lost its air, and the decreased
ability to keep steady pressure on the system.


7. There is some type of plug fitting on the top and the side of the tank,
and I know these are the fittings where one must "measure" the air
pressure,
and refill the unit. I don't know which is which, and I don't know what
type
of fitting one has to have to make the measurement and the refill if
needed.
The only type of pump that I have is a bicycle pump, and I assume that I
would have to have special equipment for a recharge, or at least have a
special fitting.

8. I assume that the pump has a check-valve, but I watched the pressure to
see if I was losing water, but it appears that it holds pressure fine
(with
nothing being used in the cabin of course). From this, I doubt that the
check valve is allowing water to escape and limiting pressure buildup.

---------------------------

Questions--

What is the most likely culprit, the pump or the tank?

Is there an easy way to test the pressure tank ?

Is it hard to recharge the tank with air? What would I need to do this?

Is it very possible that the pump impeller is partially clogged, causing
erratic pumping action?

Is it more likely that the pump motor itself is defective, or the
impeller,
if I do in fact have a pump problem ?

--------------------------

Please make any comments to tell me if I am on the right track, and what I
could do for further testing myself to see if I can troubleshoot the
problem
and possibly even fix it myself. I am not very mechanically inclined,
but
I do like to know how things like this work, so that I can make minor
adjustments and/or at least be able to give good info to my plumber at
that
location.

Thanks in advance for any help that anyone can give on this !!!



If your pump cuts off at 30 psi, then your tank bladder should have 30 psi
of air in it when it is released of all water pressure, if there is no air
pressure then the bladder has probably ruptured.

Any tank I ever saw you check and fill with standard tire gauge and chucks,
there should be a shcrader valve on top of the tank.

A bicycle pump would take you forever, due to the volume of air contained in
the tank.

A new tank is around $200, IIRC--pretty sure home depot stocks the Flotec
line.

--

SVL

"James Nipper" wrote in message
news





At a vacation cabin in the mountains , I get water from a nearby spring.
At the spring I have a reservoir, and a submersible pump is hung vertically
in that reservoir. The system has worked well for many years. The pump is
"about" a 1 hp rating, but it could be as big as 1 1/2 hp.

(...)

I would look for trash obstructing the pump intake.

MM

I would go with the tank bladder having split or ruptured, you can check by
removing the rubber on the top of the tank and pushing down the pin in the
middle (with the pump running) if air comes out then it is ok, if you get
water then you need a new tank. If air comes out check the pressure with a
standard tyre pressure gauge, if you do have to top up the pressure you have
to drain the tank of water first.
"James Nipper" wrote in message
news





At a vacation cabin in the mountains , I get water from a nearby spring.
At the spring I have a reservoir, and a submersible pump is hung
vertically
in that reservoir. The system has worked well for many years. The pump is
"about" a 1 hp rating, but it could be as big as 1 1/2 hp.

Inside the cabin, I have a pressure tank, and a pressure switch by
Pumptrol.
My guess is that the tank itself is also a Pumptrol brand, but I do know
that it is the bladder type. I don't recall if the pressure tank has ever
been replaced or if the bladder has ever been pumped with air. Even if it
has, it has been more than 20 years. (We only use this cabin for a total
of
ten weeks a year, spread over about 4 trips). I drain and winterize the
system at the end of the winter trips.

On the very last day of a recent trip, I had some problems in getting
enough
water and water pressure, and I am trying to get some ideas as to what the
problem may be so that when I go back I can properly assess the situation
myself and at least be able to help my plumber to troubleshoot the
situation.

Here are the symptons and related facts:

1. The pressure control switch is set for 30 psi low to 60 psi high. It
also has a "low pressure" pump-safety setting, set at 20 psi. (Again,
please note that this system and these settings have worked well for many
years).

2. The first thing that I noticed was that the water would cut off once
the
pressure reached the 20 psi low pressure level. So, I would have to
manually reset the switch, and manually hold it to the on position until
the
pressure reached about 25 psi, at which time the switch would take over
and the pump would continue.

3. I can't give exact "time" parameters, but normally I would say that it
might take 1-2 minutes for the pressure to go from 30 psi to 60 psi and
shut off. But on this last night before we left, it might take 7-8
minutes
to go from the low to to high setting. During this "climb", I notice
that
the gradual rise in pressure was not "even," meaning that it would rise
for
a bit, and then seem to hesitate at one pressure level for a minute or so,
and then take off again and rise at a much quicker rate.

4. The "source" in the resevoir is fine, so we have plenty of water at
the
source.

5. My pump is wired with 220 v, and I was able to check the voltage at
the
pressure switch relay, and I have verified that the pump is getting the
full
220v, as there is about 110 volts on each side of the wire **going** to
the
pump.

6. From the brief observations that I could make before I left, I have
concluded that I either have a problem with my pump or with the pressure
tank. For some reason that I can't quite explain, I have thought more
that
it might be a problem with the tank, and that perhaps it needs recharging
with air. I suppose that I lean toward this conclusion because it seems
that my water pressure is erratic as the pump pushes water, and I wonder
if
this is a sympton of a bladder that has lost its air, and the decreased
ability to keep steady pressure on the system.


7. There is some type of plug fitting on the top and the side of the tank,
and I know these are the fittings where one must "measure" the air
pressure,
and refill the unit. I don't know which is which, and I don't know what
type
of fitting one has to have to make the measurement and the refill if
needed.
The only type of pump that I have is a bicycle pump, and I assume that I
would have to have special equipment for a recharge, or at least have a
special fitting.

8. I assume that the pump has a check-valve, but I watched the pressure to
see if I was losing water, but it appears that it holds pressure fine
(with
nothing being used in the cabin of course). From this, I doubt that the
check valve is allowing water to escape and limiting pressure buildup.

---------------------------

Questions--

What is the most likely culprit, the pump or the tank?

Is there an easy way to test the pressure tank ?

Is it hard to recharge the tank with air? What would I need to do this?

Is it very possible that the pump impeller is partially clogged, causing
erratic pumping action?

Is it more likely that the pump motor itself is defective, or the
impeller,
if I do in fact have a pump problem ?

--------------------------

Please make any comments to tell me if I am on the right track, and what I
could do for further testing myself to see if I can troubleshoot the
problem
and possibly even fix it myself. I am not very mechanically inclined,
but
I do like to know how things like this work, so that I can make minor
adjustments and/or at least be able to give good info to my plumber at
that
location.

Thanks in advance for any help that anyone can give on this !!!


--James---

"James Nipper" wrote in message
news





At a vacation cabin in the mountains , I get water from a nearby spring.
At the spring I have a reservoir, and a submersible pump is hung
vertically
in that reservoir. The system has worked well for many years. The pump is
"about" a 1 hp rating, but it could be as big as 1 1/2 hp.

Inside the cabin, I have a pressure tank, and a pressure switch by
Pumptrol.
My guess is that the tank itself is also a Pumptrol brand, but I do know
that it is the bladder type. I don't recall if the pressure tank has ever
been replaced or if the bladder has ever been pumped with air. Even if it
has, it has been more than 20 years. (We only use this cabin for a total
of
ten weeks a year, spread over about 4 trips). I drain and winterize the
system at the end of the winter trips.

On the very last day of a recent trip, I had some problems in getting
enough
water and water pressure, and I am trying to get some ideas as to what the
problem may be so that when I go back I can properly assess the situation
myself and at least be able to help my plumber to troubleshoot the
situation.

Here are the symptons and related facts:

1. The pressure control switch is set for 30 psi low to 60 psi high. It
also has a "low pressure" pump-safety setting, set at 20 psi. (Again,
please note that this system and these settings have worked well for many
years).

2. The first thing that I noticed was that the water would cut off once
the
pressure reached the 20 psi low pressure level. So, I would have to
manually reset the switch, and manually hold it to the on position until
the
pressure reached about 25 psi, at which time the switch would take over
and the pump would continue.

3. I can't give exact "time" parameters, but normally I would say that it
might take 1-2 minutes for the pressure to go from 30 psi to 60 psi and
shut off. But on this last night before we left, it might take 7-8
minutes
to go from the low to to high setting. During this "climb", I notice
that
the gradual rise in pressure was not "even," meaning that it would rise
for
a bit, and then seem to hesitate at one pressure level for a minute or so,
and then take off again and rise at a much quicker rate.

4. The "source" in the resevoir is fine, so we have plenty of water at
the
source.

5. My pump is wired with 220 v, and I was able to check the voltage at
the
pressure switch relay, and I have verified that the pump is getting the
full
220v, as there is about 110 volts on each side of the wire **going** to
the
pump.

6. From the brief observations that I could make before I left, I have
concluded that I either have a problem with my pump or with the pressure
tank. For some reason that I can't quite explain, I have thought more
that
it might be a problem with the tank, and that perhaps it needs recharging
with air. I suppose that I lean toward this conclusion because it seems
that my water pressure is erratic as the pump pushes water, and I wonder
if
this is a sympton of a bladder that has lost its air, and the decreased
ability to keep steady pressure on the system.


7. There is some type of plug fitting on the top and the side of the tank,
and I know these are the fittings where one must "measure" the air
pressure,
and refill the unit. I don't know which is which, and I don't know what
type
of fitting one has to have to make the measurement and the refill if
needed.
The only type of pump that I have is a bicycle pump, and I assume that I
would have to have special equipment for a recharge, or at least have a
special fitting.

8. I assume that the pump has a check-valve, but I watched the pressure to
see if I was losing water, but it appears that it holds pressure fine
(with
nothing being used in the cabin of course). From this, I doubt that the
check valve is allowing water to escape and limiting pressure buildup.

---------------------------

Questions--

What is the most likely culprit, the pump or the tank?

Is there an easy way to test the pressure tank ?

Is it hard to recharge the tank with air? What would I need to do this?

Is it very possible that the pump impeller is partially clogged, causing
erratic pumping action?

Is it more likely that the pump motor itself is defective, or the
impeller,
if I do in fact have a pump problem ?

--------------------------

Please make any comments to tell me if I am on the right track, and what I
could do for further testing myself to see if I can troubleshoot the
problem
and possibly even fix it myself. I am not very mechanically inclined,
but
I do like to know how things like this work, so that I can make minor
adjustments and/or at least be able to give good info to my plumber at
that
location.

Thanks in advance for any help that anyone can give on this !!!


--James---

The tank has nothing to do with the pump moving water, so it's not the tank
but checking the air pressure precharge doesn't hurt and it should be 29-28#
with no water in a bladder tank but ... I think you have a AVC (air volume
control) that is supposed to maintain the air. It may be bad but it has
nothing to do wit hthe pump moving water. No air or not enough and the
pressure builds very quickly, your pressure is taking way to long to build.
That says some junk is sucked up against the pump inlet restricting flow or
the pump is broken or there is a leak between the pump and the pressure
tank. The check valve may be restricting flow too but probably not since you
hold the pressure when the pump shuts off. That's as long as there;s no
check valve at the inlet to the tank or between the pump's check valve and
the tank. You'll have to check the amp draw and then the ohms reading for
your motor. And I suspect you'll end up pulling the pump and replace it if
you do. It's earned retirement.

Gary
Quality Water Associates
www.qualitywaterassociates.com
Bulletin Board www.qualitywaterassociates.com/phpBB2

Thanks Gary !! Very helpful.........


--james---