I was wondering if anyone knows a good manufacturer/vendor of shower
doors. This is more for future reference, or advice that I can give to
anyone asking about my remodelling project.

I recently had Holcam "Eurolite" shower doors manufactured for my
bathroom. They're much like a Mercedes. Very expensive ($1100!!!!),
look great, but they have many problems. For one thing, the fixed panel
was chipped at the factory. My contractor examined the packaging, and
no glass chip could be found in the foam or packaging. They must have
chipped the glass at the factory, and not noticed it (or maybe they
did), and sent it anyway. Yes, I'm sure they would take it back and
send me another one, but one has to consider labor... Is it worth $280
to have my workers take it back to the reseller, wait another 4 weeks,
and then install it? It takes 2 people to carry each panel. What if
they send me another chipped one? This could go on and on...

So I decided to live with the small chip in the glass, even though, at
$1100, these should be perfect. But I can't wait another 4 weeks, and I
don't want to pay more money for labor.

So this morning, I took a very short shower (didn't wash my hair, so it
was 5 minutes). When I opened the door, to my horror, there was a huge
puddle on my new floor. It looked like a 1/2 liter bottle of water had
completely spilled on the floor. I measured the gap between the panel
and the door, and it's only 1/52", which is what Holcam says there will
be, if it is installed properly. The gap acts like a channel -- it
channels water down on to the floor. There has to be a gap, since the
door and fixed panel cannot touch or scrape each other.

So, for $1100, I have a somewhat nice looking shower door (with a chip
in the corner) that doesn't keep the water out.

The doors were installed properly. In fact, I was amazed at how level
and straight everything is, considering that my shower is tiled with
natural stone, which is quite irregular. Nontheless, everything was
installed within the tolerances specified by Holcam.

Anyone know a vendor of shower doors that is competant?

I wish I had just stuck with the $20 shower curtain setup from Target.
Not as "nice" looking, but it worked. Nothing easier to clean either --
after 6-9 months, you get a new shower curtain. The main thing -- it
kept out the water!

I would strongly dissuade anyone thinking of getting Holcam shower
doors... Unless you like spending a lot of money on inferior quality
products that don't work properly.

central_scrutinizer wrote:
I would strongly dissuade anyone thinking of getting Holcam shower
doors... Unless you like spending a lot of money on inferior quality
products that don't work properly.

Did you try contacting Holcam?
http://www.holcam.com/contact_us.html

Yes... The day I got the doors, I emailed them about a 20% refund for
the "scratch and dent" quality of the product. I don't care if they
will replace it (I doubt they will - this is a custom made product. I
was told there is no return policy for it)... That will cost me extra
in labor. It's been 5 days, and I have no reply at all. Sometimes
emails are ignored or go to the wrong person. I will escalate this by
sending a registered letter to them and cc: the BBB (they are members).
If I don't get a partial refund, I will file a small claims case. My
contractors will testify that this was not damaged in shipping, but at
the factory. It's easy to prove - there were no glass chips
embedded in the foam that covers the edges of the panel.

It's a matter of principle. As a rule, I don't pay full price for floor
model, "scratch n' dent sale" quality products. And I refuse to pay my
own money for the labor to return the panel, and have my contractors
pick it up again in 4 weeks... Who knows, the next one could be
worse... That is, if they even do that. Like I said, when I ordered
these, they stressed that there is no return policy for these...

It wasn't just one chip... We tried to invert the panel, so the chip
would be covered by the support railings. The other side was even
worse! It had quite a few chips and it looked like the glass was cut by
a dull blade... The lack of glass chips in the packaging, or damage to
the packaging is further evidence that this happened at the factory...
This is a custom made product, and I don't think they have the high
standards to cut another panel because they messed up and chipped this
one.

It's funny, because my contractors installed some glass mosaic tile in
the bathroom, and were able to cut it without chipping it. It can be
done. You'd think people in the glass shower door business would know
how to do this right... Maybe they are too cheap to replace their
diamond saw blades? I don't know... when you pay top dollar, you expect
quality... At least I do...

The next day, after I took my first shower and saw the huge puddle on
the floor, I called them and asked for the same piece that goes on the
bottom of the shower door. I wanted to put that on the side of the door
panel. It would not only prevent the leakage, but cover the chip in the
glass. They told me this is not a suitable part, and are sending me
what I understand to be some type of weather stripping. They said this
would cover the chip, but how would they know? If it's weather
stripping, it will not do that. It's some cheapo self-adhesive thing
that will probably peel off in a few years and look like crap.

They could have designed these doors better. The way they are designed,
there has to be a small gap between the panel and the door. Seems like
it should come with some rubber edge so the door closes tightly with
the fixed panel. This is not rocket science here. If some people find
this aesthetically displeasing, they could make it optional. Some
people will take form over function... Even these people would be
dissatisfied by chipped glass, though...

I've learned a lot by this whole experience. Usually, you do get what
you pay for, but not always. In the case of these shower doors, I spent
50 times as much as a shower curtain, rod, and hooks, and received a
product that is inferior in performance.

The only cool thing is the Hydroshield treatment. The water just sheets
off, and you don't need to wipe down the shower doors. I'm interested
to see how this holds up over time. Hydroshield is not Holcam's
invention... It's a value-added resale option, and it made by another
company. There's nothing clever about Holcam's own products. They're
just two pieces of glass with some support rails and hinges. A 3rd
grader could have designed these things...

But I cannot recommend these shower doors, which brings me to the point
of this post. My mother was going to buy Holcam doors to replace her
shower doors, but after I told her about these issues, she decided
against it...

So, to get back on topic, can anyone provide me with another vendor of
quality shower doors that are 5/8" thick tempered glass... I mean,
these have to be made by a competent company that can cut the glass
without chipping it. I'm sure one can get better product for less. I
was lazy and went to the Home Depot, and that's the only swinging
shower door product they sell... I've found the sliding ones always
build up gunk in the tracts and are impossible to clean. It's like a
breeding ground for mold.

So please let me know of another company that makes these products. I
would be happy to avoid the Home Depot. During my whole remodeling
project, I have found the HD to be overpriced and while they have
everything, they don't have a good selection of top quality products
with elegant design. For example, if you buy a bathroom vent at the HD,
it looks like something from a Motel 6, and it costs 30% more than
something you would get at an electrical supply store... If you live in
a big city, there is always an industrial neighborhood with specialty
stores that sell quality products at marginal cost. These stores are
often in scary neighborhoods and are basically warehouses, and are open
from 9-5. This makes them a bit inaccessible for some, but I highly
recommend shopping around at smaller businesses. All of the problems I
have had with products have been resolved quickly, and I return to
these places again and again, and recommend them to family and friends.

I was able to get natural stone tile that was 30% less than the HD,
better quality, and it looked like nothing you'd see at the HD. The
HD has some pretty cheesy looking tile, hardwood, and plumbing
fixtures. Maybe if you're remodeling for the Waltons?

So all of those people worried that the HD would put smaller stores out
of business, I can tell you, they are no competition. Their products
are cheesy and overpriced. The HD is OK for some things, but they
don't even have a good selection of something like grout!

Anyway, any recommendations for 5/8" tempered glass shower doors made
by a company that can deliver quality products? My current
recommendation is to go to Target and get a rod, hooks, and shower
curtain. If your shower looks nice to begin with, it will still look
really nice with a shower curtain...

"central_scrutinizer" wrote in message
oups.com...
(snip)
Anyway, any recommendations for 5/8" tempered glass shower doors made
by a company that can deliver quality products? My current
recommendation is to go to Target and get a rod, hooks, and shower
curtain. If your shower looks nice to begin with, it will still look
really nice with a shower curtain...

Any competent glass company that does commercial work can make you whatever
you want, and has access to all sorts of vendors for the needed fittings.
Personally, for a high-end shower like that, I would have designed a
labyrinth entrance, so no door was needed. Walk around 2 corners, and there
you are. Not a big deal, if you design it into the bathroom footprint from
the get-go.

aem sends...

ameijers wrote:
"central_scrutinizer" wrote in message
oups.com...
(snip)
Anyway, any recommendations for 5/8" tempered glass shower doors
made by a company that can deliver quality products? My current
recommendation is to go to Target and get a rod, hooks, and shower
curtain. If your shower looks nice to begin with, it will still look
really nice with a shower curtain...

Any competent glass company that does commercial work can make you
whatever you want, and has access to all sorts of vendors for the
needed fittings. Personally, for a high-end shower like that, I would
have designed a labyrinth entrance, so no door was needed. Walk
around 2 corners, and there you are. Not a big deal, if you design it
into the bathroom footprint from the get-go.

aem sends...

Excellent suggestion; I have that exact configuration although it never
occured to me to suggest it to the OP.

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:28:32 GMT, "ameijers"
wrote:

Personally, for a high-end shower like that, I would have designed a
labyrinth entrance, so no door was needed. Walk around 2 corners, and there
you are. Not a big deal, if you design it into the bathroom footprint from
the get-go.

Exactly so, and so much easier to clean, to boot! In fact, you don't
even need a true labyrinth. My brother's shower is at the end of a
rectangular bathroom with the bathroom entry at the opposite end of
the room. His showerhead is on one of the walls parallel to the
bathroom entrance, and there's a full tiled wall blocking off almost
the entire shower (which is its own little room within this bathroom,
taking up the entire end if I wasn't already clear about that),
leaving space for the shower entrance at the end opposite the
showerhead. No curtain needed, and the entire shower is about six or
seven feet long and about four or five feet wide. You do need to step
down into it. A great design, and very economical if you have the
space.

"central_scrutinizer" wrote in
oups.com:

Yes... The day I got the doors, I emailed them about a 20% refund
for the "scratch and dent" quality of the product. I don't care if
they will replace it (I doubt they will - this is a custom made
product. I was told there is no return policy for it)... That will
cost me extra in labor. It's been 5 days, and I have no reply at
all. Sometimes emails are ignored or go to the wrong person. I
will escalate this by sending a registered letter to them and cc:
the BBB (they are members). If I don't get a partial refund, I
will file a small claims case. My contractors will testify that
this was not damaged in shipping, but at the factory. It's easy to
prove - there were no glass chips embedded in the foam that covers
the edges of the panel.

It's a matter of principle. As a rule, I don't pay full price for
floor model, "scratch n' dent sale" quality products. And I refuse
to pay my own money for the labor to return the panel, and have my
contractors pick it up again in 4 weeks... Who knows, the next one
could be worse... That is, if they even do that. Like I said, when
I ordered these, they stressed that there is no return policy for
these...

It wasn't just one chip... We tried to invert the panel, so the
chip would be covered by the support railings. The other side was
even worse! It had quite a few chips and it looked like the glass
was cut by a dull blade... The lack of glass chips in the
packaging, or damage to the packaging is further evidence that
this happened at the factory... This is a custom made product, and
I don't think they have the high standards to cut another panel
because they messed up and chipped this one.

It's funny, because my contractors installed some glass mosaic
tile in the bathroom, and were able to cut it without chipping it.
It can be done. You'd think people in the glass shower door
business would know how to do this right... Maybe they are too
cheap to replace their diamond saw blades? I don't know... when
you pay top dollar, you expect quality... At least I do...

The next day, after I took my first shower and saw the huge puddle
on the floor, I called them and asked for the same piece that goes
on the bottom of the shower door. I wanted to put that on the side
of the door panel. It would not only prevent the leakage, but
cover the chip in the glass. They told me this is not a suitable
part, and are sending me what I understand to be some type of
weather stripping. They said this would cover the chip, but how
would they know? If it's weather stripping, it will not do that.
It's some cheapo self-adhesive thing that will probably peel off
in a few years and look like crap.

They could have designed these doors better. The way they are
designed, there has to be a small gap between the panel and the
door. Seems like it should come with some rubber edge so the door
closes tightly with the fixed panel. This is not rocket science
here. If some people find this aesthetically displeasing, they
could make it optional. Some people will take form over
function... Even these people would be dissatisfied by chipped
glass, though...

I've learned a lot by this whole experience. Usually, you do get
what you pay for, but not always. In the case of these shower
doors, I spent 50 times as much as a shower curtain, rod, and
hooks, and received a product that is inferior in performance.

The only cool thing is the Hydroshield treatment. The water just
sheets off, and you don't need to wipe down the shower doors. I'm
interested to see how this holds up over time. Hydroshield is not
Holcam's invention... It's a value-added resale option, and it
made by another company. There's nothing clever about Holcam's own
products. They're just two pieces of glass with some support rails
and hinges. A 3rd grader could have designed these things...

But I cannot recommend these shower doors, which brings me to the
point of this post. My mother was going to buy Holcam doors to
replace her shower doors, but after I told her about these issues,
she decided against it...

So, to get back on topic, can anyone provide me with another
vendor of quality shower doors that are 5/8" thick tempered
glass... I mean, these have to be made by a competent company that
can cut the glass without chipping it. I'm sure one can get better
product for less. I was lazy and went to the Home Depot, and
that's the only swinging shower door product they sell... I've
found the sliding ones always build up gunk in the tracts and are
impossible to clean. It's like a breeding ground for mold.

So please let me know of another company that makes these
products. I would be happy to avoid the Home Depot. During my
whole remodeling project, I have found the HD to be overpriced and
while they have everything, they don't have a good selection of
top quality products with elegant design. For example, if you buy
a bathroom vent at the HD, it looks like something from a Motel 6,
and it costs 30% more than something you would get at an
electrical supply store... If you live in a big city, there is
always an industrial neighborhood with specialty stores that sell
quality products at marginal cost. These stores are often in scary
neighborhoods and are basically warehouses, and are open from 9-5.
This makes them a bit inaccessible for some, but I highly
recommend shopping around at smaller businesses. All of the
problems I have had with products have been resolved quickly, and
I return to these places again and again, and recommend them to
family and friends.

I was able to get natural stone tile that was 30% less than the
HD,
better quality, and it looked like nothing you'd see at the HD.
The HD has some pretty cheesy looking tile, hardwood, and plumbing
fixtures. Maybe if you're remodeling for the Waltons?

So all of those people worried that the HD would put smaller
stores out of business, I can tell you, they are no competition.
Their products are cheesy and overpriced. The HD is OK for some
things, but they don't even have a good selection of something
like grout!

Anyway, any recommendations for 5/8" tempered glass shower doors
made by a company that can deliver quality products? My current
recommendation is to go to Target and get a rod, hooks, and shower
curtain. If your shower looks nice to begin with, it will still
look really nice with a shower curtain...


Why do you want 5/8" thick shower doors ? Are you going to use the
shower door for a blast shield ?

We went to a glass contractor and he custom made and installed one in
our new bathroom. You didn't specifically say so I assume yours was
hinged ? You said the sliding ones always got dirty, etc. Ours is a
sliding door system, without the traditional doubleU channel at the
bottom, but instead used an "L" shape, withthe foot od the "L" slanted
toward the shower pan. After 2 years, no build up, etc.
Our shower is 3' x 5' with a seat across the back, a fixed and a hand-
held head, so the water flus all around the stall, and to this day we
have has NO leaks or puddles on the floor.

Do some checking locally other than the HD or Lowe's. I bet you can
get exactly what you want with total satisfaction.

Sorry... I meant 3/8" glass doors. That's what the high end ones are.
My bathroom is too small to do anything more than a fixed panel and a
swinging door. I should mention, it is quite humid/foggy where I live,
and every sliding shower door I have had has been a chore to keep
clean.

I think I'll recommend that one should just go to a local glass
manufacturer and have them made. Any place that can do 3/8" tempered
glass and put hinges on it. That sounds like a good idea. I'm getting
some glass shelves made, and I should have just had that thrown in.
This is the price I pay for being lazy and going to the HD.

Seems like Holcam upsells the shower doors as some sort of "European
design" thing, but it's just thick glass. I think they look fine, and
I've figured out how to minimize the leakage. My only beef with the
manufacturer is that they charge a lot of money for stuff that seems to
be sloppily manufactured.

I purchased a lot of custom made cabinetry, and there are small
scratches, etc. I had no problem with this, because they were 1/2 the
price of anything else, and were willing to refinish any of the doors
that were damaged in transit or manufacturing.

It's just when you pay top dollar for something, and get the scratch n'
dent floormodel quality -- that's just wrong and extremely annoying.