Can someone confirm that power factor is NOT taken into consideration for domestic supplies? I have a feeling it isn't, but I can't find any information on the internet. If it matters, it's a modern (5 years old) electronic meter I have. The power factor in my house is an average of 0.7 so depending if it's charged for or not, my bill could be completely different.

--
Tip: Don't substitute salt for sugar in recipes.
It tastes like ****.

On 17/04/14 10:07, Uncle Peter wrote:
Can someone confirm that power factor is NOT taken into consideration
for domestic supplies? I have a feeling it isn't, but I can't find any
information on the internet. If it matters, it's a modern (5 years
old) electronic meter I have. The power factor in my house is an
average of 0.7 so depending if it's charged for or not, my bill could be
completely different.

When I last dealt with this, power generator companies "assumed" there
would be an average power factor and set up their generators to handle
that. Your individual house (or, probably, even a small factory) would
not cause much variation in that power factor, considering the
generators are probably supplying hundreds of thousands of homes at the
same time!!

Daniel

On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:50:32 +0100, Daniel wrote:

On 17/04/14 10:07, Uncle Peter wrote:
Can someone confirm that power factor is NOT taken into consideration
for domestic supplies? I have a feeling it isn't, but I can't find any
information on the internet. If it matters, it's a modern (5 years
old) electronic meter I have. The power factor in my house is an
average of 0.7 so depending if it's charged for or not, my bill could be
completely different.

When I last dealt with this, power generator companies "assumed" there
would be an average power factor and set up their generators to handle
that. Your individual house (or, probably, even a small factory) would
not cause much variation in that power factor, considering the
generators are probably supplying hundreds of thousands of homes at the
same time!!

That won't apply to switched mode power supplies clipping off the peaks though.

--
Is a castrated pig disgruntled?

On 17/04/14 23:46, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:50:32 +0100, Daniel
wrote:

On 17/04/14 10:07, Uncle Peter wrote:
Can someone confirm that power factor is NOT taken into consideration
for domestic supplies? I have a feeling it isn't, but I can't find any
information on the internet. If it matters, it's a modern (5 years
old) electronic meter I have. The power factor in my house is an
average of 0.7 so depending if it's charged for or not, my bill could be
completely different.

When I last dealt with this, power generator companies "assumed" there
would be an average power factor and set up their generators to handle
that. Your individual house (or, probably, even a small factory) would
not cause much variation in that power factor, considering the
generators are probably supplying hundreds of thousands of homes at the
same time!!

That won't apply to switched mode power supplies clipping off the peaks
though.

Wouldn't cause a very big blip in the grander scheme of things.

And what SMPS clips off the peaks?? Usually they vary the switch on
point in the A.C. waveform.

Daniel

On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 12:48:36 +0100, Daniel wrote:

On 17/04/14 23:46, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:50:32 +0100, Daniel
wrote:

On 17/04/14 10:07, Uncle Peter wrote:
Can someone confirm that power factor is NOT taken into consideration
for domestic supplies? I have a feeling it isn't, but I can't find any
information on the internet. If it matters, it's a modern (5 years
old) electronic meter I have. The power factor in my house is an
average of 0.7 so depending if it's charged for or not, my bill could be
completely different.

When I last dealt with this, power generator companies "assumed" there
would be an average power factor and set up their generators to handle
that. Your individual house (or, probably, even a small factory) would
not cause much variation in that power factor, considering the
generators are probably supplying hundreds of thousands of homes at the
same time!!

That won't apply to switched mode power supplies clipping off the peaks
though.

Wouldn't cause a very big blip in the grander scheme of things.

And what SMPS clips off the peaks?? Usually they vary the switch on
point in the A.C. waveform.

You can get power supplies with "active PFC" which is presumably what you just described. However the cheap ones have "passive PFC" or no PFC, so presumably they just top up the bulk capacitors at the peak of each waveform. A basic transformer and rectifier will do the same.

--
A patient tells the Doctor, "I've been going to a faith healer, but wasn't getting any better."
The Doctor smiled and said, "And what dumb advice did this phony give you?"
"He told me to come see you." replied the new patient.

On 18/04/14 22:45, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 12:48:36 +0100, Daniel
wrote:

On 17/04/14 23:46, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:50:32 +0100, Daniel
wrote:

On 17/04/14 10:07, Uncle Peter wrote:
Can someone confirm that power factor is NOT taken into consideration
for domestic supplies? I have a feeling it isn't, but I can't find
any
information on the internet. If it matters, it's a modern (5 years
old) electronic meter I have. The power factor in my house is an
average of 0.7 so depending if it's charged for or not, my bill
could be
completely different.

When I last dealt with this, power generator companies "assumed" there
would be an average power factor and set up their generators to handle
that. Your individual house (or, probably, even a small factory) would
not cause much variation in that power factor, considering the
generators are probably supplying hundreds of thousands of homes at the
same time!!

That won't apply to switched mode power supplies clipping off the peaks
though.

Wouldn't cause a very big blip in the grander scheme of things.

And what SMPS clips off the peaks?? Usually they vary the switch on
point in the A.C. waveform.

You can get power supplies with "active PFC" which is presumably what
you just described. However the cheap ones have "passive PFC" or no
PFC, so presumably they just top up the bulk capacitors at the peak of
each waveform. A basic transformer and rectifier will do the same.

What's "PFC" when it's at home?? Power Factor Correction maybe!!

To the mains supply, most things look like Inductors, which means the
voltage waveform and the current waveforms are not in phase. Power
Factor Correction simple means that capacitors are switched in to
counter-act the Inductance, so the Voltage and Current are more nearly
in phase.

Active PFC might be changing how a transistor "appears" (more capacitive
or less capacitive) to fix the phase angle.

And, as I typed earlier, your little power supply would have very little
effect on the phase angle of your homes mains supply!!

Now, when your refrigerator's (inductive) motor switches on, now that
might have a noticeably affect, but, in the greater scheme of your
regional Power companies operations, zero effect!!

Daniel

"Daniel" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/14 23:46, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:50:32 +0100, Daniel
wrote:

On 17/04/14 10:07, Uncle Peter wrote:
Can someone confirm that power factor is NOT taken into consideration
for domestic supplies? I have a feeling it isn't, but I can't find any
information on the internet. If it matters, it's a modern (5 years
old) electronic meter I have. The power factor in my house is an
average of 0.7 so depending if it's charged for or not, my bill could
be
completely different.

When I last dealt with this, power generator companies "assumed" there
would be an average power factor and set up their generators to handle
that. Your individual house (or, probably, even a small factory) would
not cause much variation in that power factor, considering the
generators are probably supplying hundreds of thousands of homes at the
same time!!

That won't apply to switched mode power supplies clipping off the peaks
though.

Wouldn't cause a very big blip in the grander scheme of things.

And what SMPS clips off the peaks?? Usually they vary the switch on point
in the A.C. waveform.

Between each peak the reservoir cap sags a little, each peak tops it up
againd and passes a large blip of current doing so.

AFAIK, current regs require a PFC front end on any switcher over 50W.

In the 80s there were hundreds of thousands of TVs with half wave thyristor
buck regulators - the generating companies weren't happy.

On 20/05/14 06:53, Ian Field wrote:


"Daniel" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/14 23:46, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:50:32 +0100, Daniel
wrote:

On 17/04/14 10:07, Uncle Peter wrote:
Can someone confirm that power factor is NOT taken into consideration
for domestic supplies? I have a feeling it isn't, but I can't find
any
information on the internet. If it matters, it's a modern (5 years
old) electronic meter I have. The power factor in my house is an
average of 0.7 so depending if it's charged for or not, my bill
could be
completely different.

When I last dealt with this, power generator companies "assumed" there
would be an average power factor and set up their generators to handle
that. Your individual house (or, probably, even a small factory) would
not cause much variation in that power factor, considering the
generators are probably supplying hundreds of thousands of homes at the
same time!!

That won't apply to switched mode power supplies clipping off the peaks
though.

Wouldn't cause a very big blip in the grander scheme of things.

And what SMPS clips off the peaks?? Usually they vary the switch on
point in the A.C. waveform.

Between each peak the reservoir cap sags a little, each peak tops it up
againd and passes a large blip of current doing so.

Yeap, but the transformer Secondary's peak voltage must exceed the
cap's voltage to then "top-up" the capacitor.

AFAIK, current regs require a PFC front end on any switcher over 50W.

Don't know!! The impression I got was that domestic mains supplies PF
varied reasonable as it was, due to domestic fridges, fluoro's, T.V.'s,
etc, switching on and off at different times, that the major power
suppliers did not worry about the domestic situation .... but in
industrial situations, yes, the major power suppliers could/would
require PF correction.

In the 80s there were hundreds of thousands of TVs with half wave
thyristor buck regulators - the generating companies weren't happy.

Daniel