I'm disappointed with mine.

For one thing it can't even correctly multiply the current by the time to
get the number of mAH.

The number of mAH is consistently about 10% below what it should be (both
for charging and for discharging).

e.g. 501mA for 66mins it says = 503mAH !!

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.

On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 01:22:45 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote:

I'm disappointed with mine.

For one thing it can't even correctly multiply the current by the
time to get the number of mAH.

I'll have to check mine...


The number of mAH is consistently about 10% below what it should be
(both for charging and for discharging).

e.g. 501mA for 66mins it says = 503mAH !!


.... but I have to say that my reason for buying it was to allow me to
resurrect some batteries that have been run flat to the point of being
unable to charge in my other chargers. So far the C9000 seems to be
able to sort out 3 out of 5 that I've tried, with another 3 to go.

--

Brian Morrison

"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
k...
On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 01:22:45 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote:

The number of mAH is consistently about 10% below what it should be (both
for charging and for discharging).

I suspect that this includes the charging efficiency, so it is the
capacity that you can extract from the cell after charging is complete.

But it does it when discharging too.

And the instruction leaflet mentions that the capacity figures are expected
to exceed the actual capacity by 20-30% when charging.

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.

On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 13:26:06 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote:

"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
k...
On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 01:22:45 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote:

The number of mAH is consistently about 10% below what it should
be (both for charging and for discharging).

I suspect that this includes the charging efficiency, so it is the
capacity that you can extract from the cell after charging is
complete.

But it does it when discharging too.

And the instruction leaflet mentions that the capacity figures are
expected to exceed the actual capacity by 20-30% when charging.


I used the break-in mode on some batteries, and when the process was
finished the cell capacity showing was about 15% of the marked
capacity. Now, I'll grant that these batteries might not be usable any
more, but that seemed a long way out from what I expected. I shall have
to see if they're usable and see what happens after a cycle.

You could enquire of their tech support people as to what's going on....

--

Brian Morrison

I got one of these

http://www.batterylogic.co.uk/techno...-i-charger.asp

very good but if the battery is dead it needs jumpstarting first before it
will attempt to charge it.
--
Jon



"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 13:26:06 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote:

"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
k...
On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 01:22:45 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote:

The number of mAH is consistently about 10% below what it should
be (both for charging and for discharging).

I suspect that this includes the charging efficiency, so it is the
capacity that you can extract from the cell after charging is
complete.

But it does it when discharging too.

And the instruction leaflet mentions that the capacity figures are
expected to exceed the actual capacity by 20-30% when charging.


I used the break-in mode on some batteries, and when the process was
finished the cell capacity showing was about 15% of the marked
capacity. Now, I'll grant that these batteries might not be usable any
more, but that seemed a long way out from what I expected. I shall have
to see if they're usable and see what happens after a cycle.

You could enquire of their tech support people as to what's going on....

--

Brian Morrison

I got one of these

http://www.batterylogic.co.uk/techno...-i-charger.asp

very good but if the battery is dead it needs jumpstarting first before it
will attempt to charge it.
--
Jon



"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 13:26:06 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote:

"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
k...
On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 01:22:45 +0100
"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote:

The number of mAH is consistently about 10% below what it should
be (both for charging and for discharging).

I suspect that this includes the charging efficiency, so it is the
capacity that you can extract from the cell after charging is
complete.

But it does it when discharging too.

And the instruction leaflet mentions that the capacity figures are
expected to exceed the actual capacity by 20-30% when charging.


I used the break-in mode on some batteries, and when the process was
finished the cell capacity showing was about 15% of the marked
capacity. Now, I'll grant that these batteries might not be usable any
more, but that seemed a long way out from what I expected. I shall have
to see if they're usable and see what happens after a cycle.

You could enquire of their tech support people as to what's going on....

--

Brian Morrison

In message , Brian
Morrison writes
On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 20:03:22 +0100
"Jon" wrote:

very good but if the battery is dead it needs jumpstarting first before it
will attempt to charge it.

Yes, the break-in mode on the C9000 is supposed to help recover sick
batteries. So far the jury is out, I think the cells I'm testing are a
bit high on internal resistance so I'm going to disharge them, cycle
them and then recharge.

I have often recovered whiskered-up S/C nicads and equally S/C NiMH
batteries by zapping them with a 12V battery charger. I've got a
home-made one which will deliver 20A. Apply for a second or two seconds
to the dead battery (single cell, correct polarity). With luck, the S/C
has gone, and the battery reads 1.3V. Obviously great care should be
taken, as there is a small risk that battery might explode. Don't
over-do the zapping!

I then connect a 10A ammeter across the battery, and watch the current
drop from typically around 5A, to a trickle.

I then switch the meter to volts, and note if the voltage is gradually
rising. If it is, it is probably rechargeable. If it is slowly falling,
the zap hasn't worked. Sometimes another zap is more successful.
--
Ian

Brian Morrison wrote:

... but I have to say that my reason for buying it was to allow me to
resurrect some batteries that have been run flat to the point of being
unable to charge in my other chargers. So far the C9000 seems to be
able to sort out 3 out of 5 that I've tried, with another 3 to go.

Wouldn't it have been more cost-effective to buy new cells?

While there are some good techniques about for reviving ones that are
otherwise defunct, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the cost
these days even for good quality cells is not high.

If the use to which the recovered cells is in any way critical, then
that's another argument for replacement.

The effectiveness of chargers with a brain depends very much on the
charge-discharge algorithm; I have a 'smart' USB charger here that
flags up nearly any almost-new cell as defunct. While the concept of
the charger is a good one, it is impossible to overcome the inbuilt
algorithm and make the unit a useful item.

These days I stick to Eneloop cells; I find their very long (by other
rechargeable cell's standards) charge-retention times more useful than
outright capacity - 95 percent after 6 months and 80 percent after a
year is a useful bonus in occasionally-used gear.


Spike

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:46:53 +0100
Spike wrote:


Brian Morrison wrote:

... but I have to say that my reason for buying it was to allow me to
resurrect some batteries that have been run flat to the point of
being unable to charge in my other chargers. So far the C9000 seems
to be able to sort out 3 out of 5 that I've tried, with another 3 to
go.

Wouldn't it have been more cost-effective to buy new cells?

For a few times, yes, but I decided to invest in ensuring that my
current good cells and future purchases are kept in good condition.


While there are some good techniques about for reviving ones that are
otherwise defunct, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the cost
these days even for good quality cells is not high.

True. What's annoying is that a battery case I use won't allow me to
fit in cells that are at the upper limit of AA battery dimensions,
assuming that the places I've looked to confirm the diameter are
correct.

If the use to which the recovered cells is in any way critical, then
that's another argument for replacement.

Well, nothing is critical just now, but there's always the time you
think they will be OK and then you're left without adequate power when
out and about.


The effectiveness of chargers with a brain depends very much on the
charge-discharge algorithm; I have a 'smart' USB charger here that
flags up nearly any almost-new cell as defunct. While the concept of
the charger is a good one, it is impossible to overcome the inbuilt
algorithm and make the unit a useful item.

It would be nice if these chargers were flash programmable, so that any
bad tendencies could be sorted out after purchase.


These days I stick to Eneloop cells; I find their very long (by other
rechargeable cell's standards) charge-retention times more useful than
outright capacity - 95 percent after 6 months and 80 percent after a
year is a useful bonus in occasionally-used gear.

Are they the Sanyo ones? If so I have heard of other reports about
their benefits. Never actually seen any on sale though, I assume you
have to search them out on-line.

--

Brian Morrison

Brian Morrison wrote:

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:46:53 +0100
Spike wrote:

These days I stick to Eneloop cells; I find their very long (by other
rechargeable cell's standards) charge-retention times more useful than
outright capacity - 95 percent after 6 months and 80 percent after a
year is a useful bonus in occasionally-used gear.

Are they the Sanyo ones? If so I have heard of other reports about
their benefits. Never actually seen any on sale though, I assume you
have to search them out on-line.

Yes, they are by Sanyo, and there's another make as well, GP ReCyko.

Sanyo (various deals) are avalable from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_...loop&x=19&y=23

and the ReCyko ones are in the list somewhere.



Spike

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 15:49:26 +0100
Spike wrote:


Brian Morrison wrote:

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:46:53 +0100
Spike wrote:

These days I stick to Eneloop cells; I find their very long (by
other rechargeable cell's standards) charge-retention times more
useful than outright capacity - 95 percent after 6 months and 80
percent after a year is a useful bonus in occasionally-used gear.

Are they the Sanyo ones? If so I have heard of other reports about
their benefits. Never actually seen any on sale though, I assume you
have to search them out on-line.

Yes, they are by Sanyo, and there's another make as well, GP ReCyko.

There are also some called Hybrio I think, I saw some on a site
reviewing these type of cells.


Sanyo (various deals) are avalable from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_...loop&x=19&y=23

and the ReCyko ones are in the list somewhere.

I have bought 4 from a trader on Ebay, at a shade under 7 GBP. I do
like the idea that they hold their charge for a long time, I had not
realised that hybrid NiMH did that. The capacity is a little lower than
I'd like, but I suspect more of it may be usable so it may not be such
a loss.

--

Brian Morrison

"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 15:49:26 +0100
Spike wrote:


Brian Morrison wrote:

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:46:53 +0100
Spike wrote:

These days I stick to Eneloop cells; I find their very long (by
other rechargeable cell's standards) charge-retention times more
useful than outright capacity - 95 percent after 6 months and 80
percent after a year is a useful bonus in occasionally-used gear.

Are they the Sanyo ones? If so I have heard of other reports about
their benefits. Never actually seen any on sale though, I assume you
have to search them out on-line.

Yes, they are by Sanyo, and there's another make as well, GP ReCyko.

There are also some called Hybrio I think, I saw some on a site
reviewing these type of cells.


Sanyo (various deals) are avalable from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_...loop&x=19&y=23

and the ReCyko ones are in the list somewhere.

I have bought 4 from a trader on Ebay, at a shade under 7 GBP. I do
like the idea that they hold their charge for a long time, I had not
realised that hybrid NiMH did that. The capacity is a little lower than
I'd like, but I suspect more of it may be usable so it may not be such
a loss.

I use Vapex Instants.
http://www.vapextech.co.uk/acatalog/...eries.html#a18

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.

Brian Gregory [UK] wrote:

"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
k...
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 15:49:26 +0100
Spike wrote:

Sanyo (various deals) are avalable from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_...loop&x=19&y=23

and the ReCyko ones are in the list somewhere.

I have bought 4 from a trader on Ebay, at a shade under 7 GBP. I do
like the idea that they hold their charge for a long time, I had not
realised that hybrid NiMH did that. The capacity is a little lower than
I'd like, but I suspect more of it may be usable so it may not be such
a loss.

I use Vapex Instants.
http://www.vapextech.co.uk/acatalog/...eries.html#a18

The charge retention on the Vapex seems inferior to the Eneloop:

Vapex 6 months About 80% of charge is held
12 months About 70% of charge is held

Eneloop: 90 per cent of the charge after 6 months
85 per cent after 12 months

and the Eneloops are cheaper; an 8-pack is £15.59 with free shipping
from Amazon.


Spike

In message , Spike
writes

Brian Gregory [UK] wrote:

"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
. uk...
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 15:49:26 +0100
Spike wrote:

Sanyo (various deals) are avalable from Amazon:


http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_...as%3Daps&field
-keywords=eneloop&x=19&y=23

and the ReCyko ones are in the list somewhere.

I have bought 4 from a trader on Ebay, at a shade under 7 GBP. I do
like the idea that they hold their charge for a long time, I had not
realised that hybrid NiMH did that. The capacity is a little lower than
I'd like, but I suspect more of it may be usable so it may not be such
a loss.

I use Vapex Instants.
http://www.vapextech.co.uk/acatalog/...eries.html#a18

The charge retention on the Vapex seems inferior to the Eneloop:

Vapex 6 months About 80% of charge is held
12 months About 70% of charge is held

Eneloop: 90 per cent of the charge after 6 months
85 per cent after 12 months

and the Eneloops are cheaper; an 8-pack is £15.59 with free shipping
from Amazon.

Over the past three years, I have, at radio rallies, bought 4 packs of 4
Vapex AAs (2700 and 2800mAh). So far, four have gone bad. They rapidly
lost their charge and, beneath the plastic, the casing went 'bubbly' and
'lumpy'. I have no idea why this should have happened. They were all
used for light duties - powering radios and the like, and generally
treated well.

On the other hand, I'm still using some AA nicads, which came out of a
printed circuit board, bought at one of the Shuttleworth rallies, some
20 years ago (even if they have now been relegated to powering some
solar powered garden lights!).
--
Ian

Walt Davidson wrote:

FWIW, the best NiMH cells I have ever bought are Ansmann 2850 maH fast
rechargeable.

For various values of 'best', of course.

The two options seem to be high capacity with significant
self-discharge rates, or lesser capacity with superior charge
retention times.

73 de G3NYY



Spike

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:58:54 +0100
Walt Davidson wrote:

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:38:34 +0100, Spike
wrote:


Walt Davidson wrote:

FWIW, the best NiMH cells I have ever bought are Ansmann 2850 maH
fast rechargeable.

For various values of 'best', of course.

The two options seem to be high capacity with significant
self-discharge rates, or lesser capacity with superior charge
retention times.

In my experience of using these cells, it is not a case of
"either/or". They appear to have both high capacity and good charge
retention performance.

What do you class as good in that respect?

--

Brian Morrison

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
news
In message , Spike
writes

Brian Gregory [UK] wrote:

"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
.uk...
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 15:49:26 +0100
Spike wrote:

Sanyo (various deals) are avalable from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_...as%3Daps&field
-keywords=eneloop&x=19&y=23

and the ReCyko ones are in the list somewhere.

I have bought 4 from a trader on Ebay, at a shade under 7 GBP. I do
like the idea that they hold their charge for a long time, I had not
realised that hybrid NiMH did that. The capacity is a little lower than
I'd like, but I suspect more of it may be usable so it may not be such
a loss.

I use Vapex Instants.
http://www.vapextech.co.uk/acatalog/...eries.html#a18

The charge retention on the Vapex seems inferior to the Eneloop:

Vapex 6 months About 80% of charge is held
12 months About 70% of charge is held

Eneloop: 90 per cent of the charge after 6 months
85 per cent after 12 months

and the Eneloops are cheaper; an 8-pack is £15.59 with free shipping
from Amazon.

8 Instants from vapextech.co.uk would be £10.50 with free shipping.

But maybe I'll try Eneloops some time.


Over the past three years, I have, at radio rallies, bought 4 packs of 4
Vapex AAs (2700 and 2800mAh). So far, four have gone bad. They rapidly
lost their charge and, beneath the plastic, the casing went 'bubbly' and
'lumpy'. I have no idea why this should have happened. They were all used
for light duties - powering radios and the like, and generally treated
well.

Yes I only like the Vapex "Instant" ones.
They're 2100mAH low self discharge.


On the other hand, I'm still using some AA nicads, which came out of a
printed circuit board, bought at one of the Shuttleworth rallies, some 20
years ago (even if they have now been relegated to powering some solar
powered garden lights!).

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.

"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:17:57 +0100, Brian Morrison
wrote:

In my experience of using these cells, it is not a case of
"either/or". They appear to have both high capacity and good charge
retention performance.

What do you class as good in that respect?

"Good" is an AA NiMH cell with any capacity higher than 2500 maH. As
far as charge retention is concerned, I have kept some of these cells
on the shelf for 2 months after fully charging and find them, as far
as I can determine, still fully charged ... in the sense that they
will power a radio for the expected time/duty cycle, just as if newly
charged.

In my experience, the low self-discharge rate of NiMH cells is remarkable.
As you say, 2 mths seems to have little practical effect on the state of
charge. In contrast, the old NiCd cells seemed to self discharge
significantly in a couple of weeks.

One thing, the coulometric charge efficiency of NiMH cells is about 65% and
seems more consistant that the figure for NiCD cells, which varies with
charge rate.
The coulometric charge efficiency increases with charge rate.

Of course Spike will be along in a minute to tell us that is a
thoroughly unscientific assessment.
:-)

I'd not let Spike bother you Walt.

--
73
Brian G8OSN/W8OSN
www.g8osn.net

Brian Reay wrote:

In my experience

And that's your problem, I suspect.

When it comes to people bringing up such matters as civil liberties,
the politicisation of the police, dilemmas caused by one law tripping
over another, and now the choice between outright capacity and charge
retention in AA cells, it is met by you saying something along the
lines of "were you there?" or "there's more to this than has been
reported" or "I've never seen that", among other well-used cliches.
That is, you comment, apparently, based on your experience.

Since this may be limited, and other people have other experiences
even of the same topic, it's indeed a very weak line to take.

With AA cells there is at least some numbers to be found, and I was
forthright enough to at least publish the data associated with the
cells in question - but what do you come back with? Experience...

....and not a fact in sight. Do facts scare you in some way? Can't you
handle them? Do you even know where to find them?

Perhaps you'd best stick to training the trainers, the title alone
suggests there isn't a single fact there to disturb your equilibrium.


Spike

"Spike" wrote in message
...

Brian Reay wrote:

In my experience

And that's your problem, I suspect.

snipped

Have you been drinking the water in Chippenham or Renfrew?

;-)

--
73
Brian G8OSN/W8OSN
www.g8osn.net

Brian Reay wrote:

"Spike" wrote in message
.. .

Brian Reay wrote:

In my experience

And that's your problem, I suspect.

snipped

Have you been drinking the water in Chippenham or Renfrew?

;-)

One of those places is in a foreign country, and the other seems as if
it is on another planet...


Spike

On 16/09/10 19:43, Spike wrote:
Perhaps you'd best stick to training the trainers, the title alone
suggests there isn't a single fact there to disturb your equilibrium.


Spike

I'm not sure about that as, in another group, he didn't appear to
realise the effect on linearity of placing a resistor in parallel with a
multiturn .25% linearity pot!


Charlie.

--
M0WYM
www.radiowymsey.org

Sales @ radiowymsey
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/gnome7763/m.html?

"M0WYM" wrote in message
...
On 16/09/10 19:43, Spike wrote:
Perhaps you'd best stick to training the trainers, the title alone
suggests there isn't a single fact there to disturb your equilibrium.


Spike

I'm not sure about that as, in another group, he didn't appear to realise
the effect on linearity of placing a resistor in parallel with a multiturn
.25% linearity pot!

Money where mouth is time Charlie, tell us the problem in the application
given.

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
"Spike" wrote in message
...

Brian Reay wrote:

In my experience

And that's your problem, I suspect.

snipped

Have you been drinking the water in Chippenham or Renfrew?

;-)

More probably that at ME7 3RT