I have been using a 30V cordless "challenge" drill from argos for about
3years and it has served me well. It does struggle a bit when drilling into
concrete lintels.
I am starting work on building a DIY conservatory, which will involve
drilling into concrete and the outside wall to attach the frame.

The amount of DIY I do doesn't justify the more expensive drills, so I have
narrowed it down to 2:
JCB 800Watt corded hammer drill for £29.99 supplied with case and a few
drill bits or Wickes brand 810Watt percussion hammer drill (13mm chuck) for
£17.99

any thoughts coments

kind regards
Bruce

Bruce wrote:
I have been using a 30V cordless "challenge" drill from argos for about
3years and it has served me well. It does struggle a bit when drilling into
concrete lintels.
I am starting work on building a DIY conservatory, which will involve
drilling into concrete and the outside wall to attach the frame.

The amount of DIY I do doesn't justify the more expensive drills, so I have
narrowed it down to 2:
JCB 800Watt corded hammer drill for £29.99 supplied with case and a few
drill bits or Wickes brand 810Watt percussion hammer drill (13mm chuck) for
£17.99

any thoughts coments


If you're doing any amount of drilling into concrete, get an SDS. The
amount of time and effort saved on your one project will outweight the cost.

Avoid the £30 SDS range, and go for a DeWalt, Makita or Bosch SDS, all
of which can be had at under £100. I (and several others) have a DW566
and am very, very happy with it.

--
Grunff

Avoid the £30 SDS range, and go for a DeWalt, Makita or Bosch SDS, all
of which can be had at under £100. I (and several others) have a DW566
and am very, very happy with it.

Whilst undoubtedly of much worse quality, I have a 30 quid (actually 50 quid
at the time) SDS NuTool and am still very happy with it. It would certainly
have no problem drilling mounting holes in concrete and brick.

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:

Whilst undoubtedly of much worse quality, I have a 30 quid (actually 50 quid
at the time) SDS NuTool and am still very happy with it. It would certainly
have no problem drilling mounting holes in concrete and brick.


Having owned, broken and returned two such tools, you'll understand if I
decline to comment ;-)

--
Grunff

Having owned, broken and returned two such tools, you'll understand if
I decline to comment ;-)

There does appear to be new groups of users for these. Some keep breaking
'em, some don't! Maybe I'm not pushing it hard enough!

Christian.

In article ,
Bruce wrote:
I have been using a 30V cordless "challenge" drill from argos for about
3years and it has served me well. It does struggle a bit when drilling
into concrete lintels.

Any percussion drill will struggle, including powerful mains ones. You
need an SDS type - they *really* do go through concrete like a hot knife
through butter. You'd be looking at a mains one, though - cordless types
are an arm and a leg.

These have been discussed here at great lengths since they can be bought
from about 30 quid upwards. I've had a De Walt 566 for many years which
cost a fair bit then but can now be bought for around 100 quid.

If you do a Google search on this group on SDS I'd say you'll get a good
evening's reading...

--
*The statement below is true.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Bruce wrote:
I have been using a 30V cordless "challenge" drill from argos for about
3years and it has served me well. It does struggle a bit when drilling
into
concrete lintels.
I am starting work on building a DIY conservatory, which will involve
drilling into concrete and the outside wall to attach the frame.

The amount of DIY I do doesn't justify the more expensive drills, so I
have
narrowed it down to 2:
JCB 800Watt corded hammer drill for £29.99 supplied with case and a few
drill bits or Wickes brand 810Watt percussion hammer drill (13mm chuck)
for
£17.99

any thoughts coments


If you're doing any amount of drilling into concrete, get an SDS. The
amount of time and effort saved on your one project will outweight the
cost.

Avoid the £30 SDS range, and go for a DeWalt, Makita or Bosch SDS, all
of which can be had at under £100. I (and several others) have a DW566
and am very, very happy with it.

Yes, an SDS drill can be had for around £100, and below these days. Well
worth it. Then get a god 1 hour charge 12-14v drill./driver, not the hammer
combi drills. Wickes do a good line in both drills and reasonable prices
and long guarantees.

Dave Plowman wrote:
In article ,
Bruce wrote:
I have been using a 30V cordless "challenge" drill from argos for about
3years and it has served me well. It does struggle a bit when drilling
into concrete lintels.

Any percussion drill will struggle, including powerful mains ones. You
need an SDS type - they *really* do go through concrete like a hot knife
through butter. You'd be looking at a mains one, though - cordless types

Depends how big the hole needs to be. With a 6mm hole it will be more or
less instant. For a 16mm hole it takes a little while, for anything over
20mm it can take minutes... (With rebar making things difficult.)

are an arm and a leg.

The cordless types can also be heavier than the mains, because the
battery pack is far from lightweight.

In article ,
Mark Evans wrote:
I have been using a 30V cordless "challenge" drill from argos for
about 3years and it has served me well. It does struggle a bit when
drilling into concrete lintels.

Any percussion drill will struggle, including powerful mains ones. You
need an SDS type - they *really* do go through concrete like a hot
knife through butter. You'd be looking at a mains one, though -
cordless types

Depends how big the hole needs to be. With a 6mm hole it will be more or
less instant. For a 16mm hole it takes a little while, for anything over
20mm it can take minutes... (With rebar making things difficult.)


Well, yes. But I was describing the difference between an SDS and cordless
hammer drill. The SDS would still seem like a knife through butter
compared to trying to drill a 20mm hole in concrete with a cordless type.

--
*Why is the word abbreviation so long? *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 00:52:03 +0100, Dave Plowman
strung together this:

The SDS would still seem like a knife through butter
compared to trying to drill a 20mm hole in concrete with a cordless type.

What, cordless SDS? Mine is as good as the mains SDS at drilling upto
25mm holes, and it''s not that heavy.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net

There does appear to be new groups of users for these. Some keep breaking
'em, some don't! Maybe I'm not pushing it hard enough!

There does seem to be a difference in the quality that a casual DIYer
would not notice I am almost sure. The point being that if they are
inadequate they are refundable in the UK under trades description laws.

Since the original poster has a decent 30 V cordless, the cheap SDS
mains with a trip switch is the way to go. Drilling into a lintle is not
a particularly good idea by the way. Whils a few self tappers into a
steel one is not going to do much harm, going through the rebar in a
concrete one is a NO! NO!.

Use gripfill or a similar mastic adhesive to stick a strip of baton
along a lintle. Hang what you need to from the batton.

I have a makita SDS that I bought second hand and rarely use. I imagine
I'd manage with a cheapo one if they made one in 110 v. I've no
experience to speak of.

All the plumbers and the electrician on the site where I am at the
moment, use Bosch cordless SDSs. They give them hard use and often.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

In article ,
Lurch wrote:
The SDS would still seem like a knife through butter compared to trying
to drill a 20mm hole in concrete with a cordless type.

What, cordless SDS? Mine is as good as the mains SDS at drilling upto
25mm holes, and it''s not that heavy.

No - ordinary percussion cordless. Few DIYers can justify the cost of a
cordless SDS.

--
*Black holes are where God divided by zero *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:46:52 +0000 (UTC), "Michael Mcneil"
wrote:

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
.net

There does appear to be new groups of users for these. Some keep breaking
'em, some don't! Maybe I'm not pushing it hard enough!

There does seem to be a difference in the quality that a casual DIYer
would not notice I am almost sure. The point being that if they are
inadequate they are refundable in the UK under trades description laws.

The various Sale of Goods Acts are the applicable legislation. The
Trade Descriptions Act is all about products being as described,
especially as regards pricing.

SOGA disputes are resolved on the basis of reasonableness. If you
pay £30 for a product in which the range of types and prices go up to
£300, then you are not going to get the same result in a court at both
ends of this spectrum.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Christian McArdle wrote:
Someone else wrote, about cheap drills:
Having owned, broken and returned two such tools, you'll
understand if I decline to comment ;-)
=20
There does appear to be new groups of users for these. Some
keep breaking 'em, some don't! Maybe I'm not pushing it hard
enough!

I hardly ever need an SDS hammer drill, so I bought one from
Aldi for =A325 (including some bits). It's fine. The OP would
do well to but a cheapo first off, mains, with rotary stop
and non-hammer capability).

You shouldn't "push" an SDS drill - it should sort of "float"
on a cushion of blows as you use it. Hold it loosely (but look
out for the bit binding, withdraw the bit halfway out of the
hole from time to time to clear debris).


J.B.

In article om,
Jerry Built ] writes:
I hardly ever need an SDS hammer drill, so I bought one from
Aldi for £25 (including some bits). It's fine. The OP would
do well to but a cheapo first off, mains, with rotary stop
and non-hammer capability).

I went round to a friends a couple of weekends ago to finish
off core drilling a hole for a soil pipe just after his 500W
B&D turned into an indoor firework display. I used my Metabo
but not in SDS hammer mode -- just as a powerful regular drill,
which does have an overheat indicator, and is in anycase over
twice the power of the smoldering B&D he was using.

Fired up by enthusiasm and my recommendations from this group,
he went off to Argos or Aldi and bought a cheap SDS drill.
This weekend, he showed me the stiches in his chin, from the
moment he discovered it didn't have a safety clutch in it
(which my Metabo certainly does have). Fortunately I believe
no serious damage done.

--
Andrew Gabriel

This weekend, he showed me the stiches in his chin, from the
moment he discovered it didn't have a safety clutch in it
(which my Metabo certainly does have).

Yes, I wouldn't do any serious core drilling with it. I've done 45mm for
waste outlets, but wouldn't fancy a 110mm for the reason you describe.

Christian.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Fired up by enthusiasm and my recommendations from this group,
[ Andrew's friend ] went off to Argos or Aldi

Must've been Argos, Aldi ran out after a couple of days!

and bought a cheap SDS drill.
This weekend, he showed me the stiches in his chin, from the
moment he discovered it didn't have a safety clutch in it
(which my Metabo certainly does have). Fortunately I believe
no serious damage done.

Stitches in his *chin*? How...? No, I don't really want to know...
I hope he doesn't have any other power tools, or a cooker, or
a powered lawnmower, or drive a car, or..... the only drill I've
had with a clutch in it is a De Walt cordless drill, which can
drive in screws too.

There's no substitute for experience, unless it is a course
in how to use hand tools safely, followed by experience. I'm
surprised that more practical courses aren't offered more
widely, and that otherwise sane people (sans experience) go
out and buy tools that can easily do serious harm. What do
I know, though - "I always wanted to be a lion tamer". No
wonder DIY is a major cause of accidents in the home!


J.B.

Stitches in his *chin*? How...? No, I don't really want to know...

Actually, those large core drills are prone to jamming, causing the drill to
rotate instead, which can twist your arm off, amongst other things if there
is no safety clutch or torque control. Those flat bladed wood drills are
good for it too.

Christian.

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
I went round to a friends a couple of weekends ago to finish
off core drilling a hole for a soil pipe just after his 500W
B&D turned into an indoor firework display.

I'm not surprised - what's the quoted capacity in masonry?

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 13:00:03 +0100, Dave Plowman
strung together this:

No - ordinary percussion cordless.

Ah, gotcha now.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 19:04:21 +0100, Dave Plowman
strung together this:

I'm not surprised - what's the quoted capacity in masonry?

I wouldn''t expect it would have any rating at all for core cutting.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 07:37:00 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Built
] wrote:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

and bought a cheap SDS drill.
This weekend, he showed me the stiches in his chin, from the
moment he discovered it didn't have a safety clutch in it
(which my Metabo certainly does have). Fortunately I believe
no serious damage done.

Stitches in his *chin*? How...? No, I don't really want to know...
I hope he doesn't have any other power tools, or a cooker, or
a powered lawnmower, or drive a car, or..... the only drill I've
had with a clutch in it is a De Walt cordless drill, which can
drive in screws too.

There's no substitute for experience, unless it is a course
in how to use hand tools safely, followed by experience. I'm
surprised that more practical courses aren't offered more
widely, and that otherwise sane people (sans experience) go
out and buy tools that can easily do serious harm. What do
I know, though - "I always wanted to be a lion tamer". No
wonder DIY is a major cause of accidents in the home!


I have to put my hand up to being guilty of thoughtless
stupidity with regard to a similar Screwfix SDS drill some time
back...

I use power tools day in, day out, as I have for the past
twenty-odd years at work. I have possessed for a good deal of this
time a "lightweight" Hitachi SDS drill ( with no roto-stop ) - which
has a built-in clutch. This operates at a point before the drill
wrecks itself, or me.

My shiny new 4KG (I think!) roto-stop SDS arrived from Screwfix
whilst I was working in a gutted old stone house. The stone was very
soft, and I didn't have any suitable chisels, so I popped in a 16mm
drill bit, turned the rotation off, applied drill to stone, and hit
the "go" button. The drill bit disappeared a couple of inches into the
stone very rapidly, so I stopped the drill, engaged the rotary
function on the drill, and without a care squeezed the switch.

It was fortunate that I had a good grip on the drill, as I
rapidly found out two things - the drill bit was firmly embedded into
the stone - no real surprise - and the drill didn't come with a clutch
- very much a surprise. This latter point meant that I spent a couple
of days mooching about gently wiggling my wrists. I still cannot
believe that these drills that are low geared, thus high on torque,
are sold bereft of a safety clutch, which is standard on non-budget
versions of the same type of drill.

They should at the very least have a warning about the lack of a
clutch, and the safety implications thereof, in bold typeface on the
packaging and instructions. I anticipate some grief regarding the
stupidity of my actions, some of which I bestowed upon myself at the
time, and if the SDS drill was new on the market, then again, my fault
entirely. But as the drill in question followed many others to the
market, if it had a serious safety flaw - which it does - it was
irresponsible not to make the point clear. I think that some of the
blurb relating to the original drill that I purchased from screwfix
intimated that it had a clutch...

Enough of my rambling.....

--
Regards,

Will.