Our house was built seven years ago. The house came with UPVC double
glazing installed.

Both south facing bedrooms have a double glazed unit consisting of two
opening windows on either side of a central, non opening, window. In
both rooms, one of the opening windows looks as though there is
condensation inside.

What are the "Window Doctor" type services like? Would they be able
to fix this sort of thing? I presume both windows are "sealed units"?
How much would such a service cost? What are peoples views of this
sort of thing? Is it something I could *easily* fix myself?

Any info, horror stories etc gratefully received.

Nozza
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tim wrote:

This is simply a matter of removing the beading,

This is the hard bit though - especially if externally beeded
(I have no solution, I gave up and left mine misty and sold the
house on like it)

It really depends on the type of bead - some come off very
easily, while others will have you swearing for days.

And you're right of course - external ones are much worse.

--
Grunff

In message , Grunff
writes
tim wrote:

This is simply a matter of removing the beading,

This is the hard bit though - especially if externally beeded (I
have no solution, I gave up and left mine misty and sold the
house on like it)

It really depends on the type of bead - some come off very easily,
while others will have you swearing for days.

And you're right of course - external ones are much worse.

The trick I've found is to pull out the rubber seal on the _inside_. A
blunt 1" chisel helps pry the first bit out.
Having removed the inside seal, the load on the beading is reduced and
it easily pops out.
IME anyway.
Reassembly is the reverse as Haynes always say.
(Although I remember doing this on a 18" x 30" kitchen opener. Put the
new unit in, poped in the external beading, went inside the slide the
seal into place, only to have the beading fall out the frame, followed
by the unit. Managed to grab hold of the unit as it fell way from me and
somehow man handled it back through the window frame. So maybe thats not
the best method.....)
--
Steve

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
David Hearn wrote:

Incidentally - can they make units to quite small gaps still? We've got
some misted units from some double glazing that was done 11 years ago
and
the gap is quite small. Often wondered whether they (your local
glazier)
could still make it so small - or whether they're all set up now for
doing
the larger airgaps.

Yes, they'll make them up with any gap you want.

--
Grunff

Excellent - that's good to know.

D

In article ,
David Hearn wrote:

Incidentally - can they make units to quite small gaps still?
We've got some misted units from some double glazing that was done
11 years ago and the gap is quite small. Often wondered whether
they (your local glazier) could still make it so small - or whether
they're all set up now for doing the larger airgaps.

Could I jack a question onto this thread please?

We are currently getting quotes to replace our windows with double
glazed units. The reasons for going to d-g are to get away from
those ugly metal windows, replace the rotting 30 year old woodwork,
and to stop condensation on the glass. We have no draughts or
noise problems in this house.

We have not been offered sealed units by anyone.... always those
units with the drain slots along the bottom.

Is this going to be ok?

--
Tony Williams.

Tony Williams wrote:

I think you have (or I may have). The little demo window one
salesman had had the two glass sheets sandwiched onto a plastic
frame (and the whole sandwich then dropped as a complete assembly
into the main window frame). I'm fairly certain I saw drain slots,
along the base of the sandwich, opening up to the airgap between the
glass sheets.

That would be a most unusual arrangement - apart from anything
else, they'd be permanently misted up! Are you sure the sealed
unit had slots at the bottom?

--
Grunff

Failing DG units are very common making DG much less cost effective
than is generally claimed - not much is saved on heating bills to
start with, single glazing could be cheaper in the long run taking
into account initial cost and replacement cost.

cheers

Jacob

Grunff wrote:

Tony Williams wrote:
................ I'm fairly certain I saw drain slots, along
the base of the sandwich, opening up to the airgap between the
glass sheets.

That would be a most unusual arrangement - apart from anything
else, they'd be permanently misted up! Are you sure the sealed
unit had slots at the bottom?

That's what I thought I saw. Some early secondary glazing also
had holes along the bottom of the 'sandwich', specifically to
avoid misting up.

I must have a closer look. Perhaps the slots at the base of
the sandwich were leading to a trough that holds some sort
of moisture absorbant.

--
Tony Williams.

In article ,
Tony Williams writes:
In article ,
Grunff wrote:

Or have I misunderstood you totally?

I think you have (or I may have). The little demo window one
salesman had had the two glass sheets sandwiched onto a plastic
frame (and the whole sandwich then dropped as a complete assembly
into the main window frame). I'm fairly certain I saw drain slots,
along the base of the sandwich, opening up to the airgap between the
glass sheets.

There are holes in the separator which allow moisture through to
a dissicant in it, but the outside edge of the sandwich is sealed.
The dissicant absorbs the moisture in the unit when it was built,
and might absorb a small amount which leaks in, but when it's
all used up and more gets in, then the window mists up.

Some reasons the outside seal might break a

o poor drainage from the channel the window sits in, so it sits
in a puddle, which might freeze in winter,

o seal damaged during installation,

o unit just not well made (in extremes, they have to handle
perhaps a 40º temperature difference and differential
thermal expansion between the two panes).

--
Andrew Gabriel

Nozza wrote:

Hello Nozza

N| Our house was built seven years ago. The house came with
N| UPVC double glazing installed.
N| Both south facing bedrooms have a double glazed unit
N| consisting of two opening windows on either side of a
N| central, non opening, window. In both rooms, one of the
N| opening windows looks as though there is condensation
N| inside.

Units have failed. There is no onsite way of repairing them, anyone
who says different is a bodger.

N| What are the "Window Doctor" type services like?

Sometimes just a salesman, sometimes a genuine guy.

N| be able to fix this sort of thing? I presume both windows
N| are "sealed units"? How much would such a service cost? What
N| are peoples views of this sort of thing? Is it something I
N| could *easily* fix myself?

You need to have the units replaced, sorry. Hopefully they're stock
sizes (common in modern houses) and it's an off-the-shelf replacement.

Either installation or manufacture could have caused the premature
failure, btw, maybe you have some sort of warrantee with your house
that may include this? Maybe your insurance does?

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/

Some reasons the outside seal might break a

Not so much why they 'might' break more why they 'will' break - they're all doomed!
Double glazing is highly obsolescent and not very cost effective, if at all.

cheers

Jacob

In article ,
(jacob) writes:
Some reasons the outside seal might break a

Not so much why they 'might' break more why they 'will' break - they're all doomed!
Double glazing is highly obsolescent and not very cost effective, if at all.

The first double glazing in my house had only a single failed unit
after some 25 years, and I think that was because a potential
burglar tried to lever it out at some point (and failed). These
frames had a waterproof seal between the outer glass surface and
the frame, which stops water getting to the glass unit seal.

Modern frames have a rubber strip which stops water pouring into
the frame, but doesn't even attempt to be fully waterproof, so
the glass units often sit in a puddle inside the frame, depending
how well constructed the frame drainage is.

I certainly wouldn't argue with it not being cost effective --
just about any other energy conservation method has a shorter
payback period, and usually very much shorter.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Thanks for all the responses here - muchly appreciated. I contacted a
few double glazing repair firms and had a chat with them and have
someone coming around to measure for replacement units.

The company was up front with all costs, (including the need for
toughened glass for windows under 800mm from floor level - they'll
measure that to confirm - but I don't think I need it)

Cost of "repair" i.e. replacement units for two windows about 100cm
tall and 45 cm wide including fitting and VAT about £115 (depends on
exact measurements).

Noz
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Remove the obvious spam trap when replying by email

On 16 Jul 2003 10:39:28 GMT, (Huge) wrote:

I assume you're all talking about secondary units in new uPVC frames.
How does DIY secondary glazing fare?

Not well. You get condensation between the panes. I had secondary
double glazing some years back and I'd never want to go back.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
(jacob) writes:
Some reasons the outside seal might break a

Not so much why they 'might' break more why they 'will' break -
they're all doomed!
Double glazing is highly obsolescent and not very cost effective, if at all.

The first double glazing in my house had only a single failed unit
after some 25 years, and I think that was because a potential
burglar tried to lever it out at some point (and failed).

We have some DG hardwood patio doors/windows. I'm not sure of the age
but at least 20 years old, quite possibly more. We do now have a couple
of failed units, but I don't feel the age they ahev lasted is that bad.
Esp. as I don't think the design of the frames is that good (the DG
units are not bedded into very much sealant, or in drained frames unlike
more modern windows tend to be.

I certainly wouldn't argue with it not being cost effective --
just about any other energy conservation method has a shorter
payback period, and usually very much shorter.

Indeed, replacing windows just to get DG doesn't make sense, but there
are good reasons for replacing single glazed windows with DG if the
windows need replacing anyway.

No significant condensation, and much more comfortable rooms are two
benefits we had from replacing the old single glazed bay windows with DG
ones last year.
--
Chris French, Leeds

Used a local independent glazier who installed two new sealed units.

Total cost £90 including fitting.

Thanks again for all the advice

Noz

There is a technique for demisting providing the inside of the glass has not been stained. The method is to drill two small holes at oppposite ends of the diagonal, then a moisture absorbent fluid such as methanol is pumped through and after drying to fit a small valve in each of the holes to let the unit breath. Mr Demister is a company in Dorset that offer this service at £40 per window. Just tried it on one window waiting to see what happens.