"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Owain" wrote in message
. ..
John Rumm wrote:
Yup even with chip and pin. The thing that changes with chip and pin is
the retailers liability for fraud. It used to be the case they were to
an extent protected from fraud carried out by the customers. If they
offer C&P then this is still the case (even if the customer elects not
to use it), however if the do not offer it and the customer commits
fraud then the retailer would be liable not the merchant account
company.

What also changes is the *customer's* (i.e. you the cardholder) liability
for fraud.

That's what I've understood too.

If a transaction is made with your PIN then you are deemed to have
authorised the transaction unless *you* can prove otherwise. And even if
you and your card were in a different country at the time how do you
prove you did not permit someone to clone your card and use your PIN?

Are you allowed topermit someone to do that?

I have one chip-and-pin card and so far have refused to use the PIN. If
the retailer won't accept the signature (hasn't happened yet) they lose
the sale.

It isn't compulsory yet. Some people believe that it won't be enforceable.



I gather that it will be possible to get Chip'n'Signature cards (as opposed
to Chip'n'Pin), though the CC providers are not particularly forthcoming
with this information.

Reason I was trying to find out about this is that I never, ever, ever
withdraw cash on my credit cards, but with several cards the only possible
way I will be able to remember PINs is to set them all to be the same, or an
easily identifiable variant - for instance on PIN on my switch/debit card,
and perhaps the reverse on all CCs.

Now (and I appreciate you probably find yourself in this situation, Mary) my
nightmare scenario is out on a bit of a bender in town, run out of cash,
need to use cash machine. Pick up card from wallet, but accidentally insert
the wrong card - a credit card - and tap in number. Withdraw cash, get
charged the earth.

So, I rang round all my CC providers and asked them if I could set the cash
withdrawal limit to zero. No, absolutely not, can't be done comes back the
answer - they all say "it's written into your terms and conditions".

Asked about this on the Motley Fool discussion boards, and answer comes back
"why not get chip'n'signature card? Solves the whole problem.".

What I can't find out is whether this type of card will actually be any use
on a day to day basis.

What will happen if you forget your pin or incorrectly type it three times
is that the merchant can accept your signature instead. However, in this
scenario they will be then liable for any fraudulant use of the card, so it
is highly likely that the majority of merchants will refuse to accept a
signature. I can forsee all kinds of problems with petrol stations - you
have cards, you fill up, mistype or forget PIN, they refuse signature on a
card transaction - what do you do then?

I haven't found out yet whether Chip'n'Signature cards will automatically
transfer risk of fraud onto the merchants, in which case they may be pretty
useless as a means of day to day payment.


Of course, Mary, you could remember your PIN by scratching it onto the
cards... ;-)

--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk