BigWallop wrote:
"Brian G" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
raden writes:

For those who have switched off from VE day Warplanes ...

http://www.pledgebank.com/no2id

I read the pledge the first couple of times as
"I will refuse to register for an ID card but only if 3,000,000
people will sign up [for an ID card]."

Also, I think there might be a problem scaling the page to
3,000,000 signatories...

Andrew Gabriel


I'm all for Photo and Finger Print ID Cards. It should be made
mandatory to carried your ID at all times, and detention or a spot
fine imposed if you're found without one.

What happens if you forget your wallet? Or just feel like wandering
around the beach on a nice hot hot day in just your bathers (nowhere
to slip your ID into) , and a rather officious PC plod decides to
ask for your ID and won't allow you to go beck to where your clothes
are? It will happen, and according to your statement, you're going
to spend a little time in a cell and probably end up with a criminal
record just for 'forgetting'.

Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will!


Stop taking these points to the extreme. Of course there will be
times when carrying a card are impossible, but don't keep saying "it
will come to the point that" all the time. As I did state, if you
can't produce a valid card within a certain time frame, like you have
to for documents for a vehicle now, then you have commited an
offence. No cop is going to stop you from going and getting your
card from a few metres away, or going to the house up the road for
it. You're just being silly now.

Sorry BW, but I honestly believe that this is just the thin end of the
wedge. Let's take a step backwards to 'recent' introductions by the
previous Home Secretary:

1 Arrest and imprisonment of non-British nationals without charge or
trial.

2 When eventually the courts got their hands on the cases and the Home
Secretary was told to charge or release these people - what did he do?
Push legislation to say that ALL people within these fair Islands could be
held under 'House Arrest and tagged' again without charge - now that is NOT
an extreme statement but fact and where will it all end -- a police state I
believe?

Just think of the implications if someone is arrested after breaking
in to a house. If they don't have an ID card on them, then it is
automatically an arrestible offence, and if they can't produce a
qualified ID card within a certain time frame, then another offence
is added to the original crime. If they produce a forged ID, then
the offence is automatically doubled or tripled.

What are the chances of someone being detected? My wife and I were
asleep when the b*****ds did us over - nobody detected them or even
caught 'em.


That happens, and is an extremely harrowing experience for the
victims, but if the thugs had been caught, and couldn't positively
identify themselves, then their sentence would have been
automatically set to a whole lot longer time in a jail. But this
crime still hasn't been solved, and the culprits still haven't been
brought to justice, but it isn't the only crime that still sits
unsolved.

Ah! But would they have had a higher chance of being caught if the were
carrying ID cards? I doubt it.

What a different society we'd all see, I think.

Yes, an Orwellian society where it is possible that a little
jumped-up prat can sit at a computer terminal and wipe all your
records clean - leaving you out on a limb trying to prove who you
are.


Bull****!!! In the extreme again. I also stated that picture and
finger print cards are the only sure way of complete identification.
How is wiping records of you going to stop your card from proving who
you really are. Your picture and finger print would be on it.

Not really extreme is it if an ID card is to be the ONLY official means of
identity. At the moment, records are held on a number of 'scattered
databases' and it is possible that if they are 'wiped' off one, another
could prove your identity.

Imagine a FUTURE scenario whereby all records are held on a one and only
official central database, then what is the difficulty in changing your
photo and fingerprints on this central record. These changes can be done
now with passports, driving licences etc by the criminal fraternity - it
will be even easier to do so by the corrupt official in control of the
keyboard - irrespective of the bleatings that this will be impossible
security is paramount. It is done on a smaller scale with the credit/debit
cards, as fast as the banks come up with new security devices, the criminal
element is getting around them fairly easily.


Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will!

Snipped

Won't happen? Can't happen, you bet it will -- especially if you
are a committed anti-war or or other type of protestor - just read
how they recently tried to swing an ASBO on a lady who has been
legally protesting against an American base in this country. If
they can try and abuse that for their own ends, it will be even
easier with an ID card - no judges to fight against.

Paranoid about this? You bet I am as I know all-to-well how easy
it is for someone to sit at a computer terminal and deliberately
delete details - and once that is done, try proving who you are or
that the details were even there in the first place!

Weird. It all sounds like paranoia to me, I'm afraid. Or you really
have something to hide.

No BW, after fifty six years, I have nothing to hide. I just value the
freedom that I have to do whatever I want within the law and travel wherever
I want without having to prove my identity to all and sundry every few
miles - and yes you could say that it is paranoia because I have seen how
easy it is to take those freedoms away a little piece at a time, without the
masses realising it until its too late - and once you realise this, then
its already too late.

A question for you:

Did the introduction of ID cards stop illegal immigration, terrorist attacks
and crime in those countries who have introduced them?

Brian G