On May 29, 4:51*pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
Has anyone done DIY solar panel installation? Do federal and state
subsidies and credits still apply for DIY solar install? I live in
central NJ and researching possibility of solar panel. I am not driven
by green paranoia, only by economics. So if economics does not deliver
I will not do it.

From what I read and heard multiple times if solar panels are
installed by a pro even with all subsidies and credits it is still
very bad economic deal and it takes zillion years to recoup huge
investment. What I thought is good portion of this cost is
installation and if I can install them myself I could make numbers
align better. Any info on DIY solar install and personal experience
would be greatly appreciated.

*I am an electrical contractor in NJ. *I am currently not promoting the
installation of photovoltaic panels through my business. *I have taken some
classes and talked with several installers of solar panels and have not
become convinced it is something that everyone should have.

I agree, they are not for everyone.


*With rebates
and tax credits it can almost make economic sense for an average homeowner,
but you need to look at the big picture. *


With tax credits and incentives I think it already does make economic
sense for an average homeowner.


Where will you install the panels?

That's critical. South facing is the best location. Next would be
West or East with a 15 or 20% reduction in output.



Not every roof can withstand the extra weight. *


I'm sure that's a possibility in some cases, but plenty of them are
going up fully permitted and inspected on ordinary roofs.

What will you do when the
roof needs replacing? *

That's a valid issue. Clearly they are best suited to a new roof, as
the panels are generally warranteed for 25 years so the lifespans are
in the same range, at least with a shingle roof.


How will you keep the panels clean?

Manufacturers recommend cleaning them off with a hose a couple times a
year, if possible. If you don't the output will be reduced, but not
by a huge amount.


*Will replacement
parts be available as well as someone to repair the system after a few
years?

As long as you buy the panels from a major manufacturer that should
not be a problem.



*Will you be living in your house long enough to realize a payback?
Is this something that will affect the value of your house one way or
another? *Will the panels look attractive?

If the panels are installed on the back of the house or alternatively
on a side not highly visible from the street, I don't think there is
any question that it adds value to the house and you will likely get
back most if not all of what the system cost. I'd certainly pay more
for a house with solar, knowing I get close to free electric.

On the other hand, if you had to install them on the roof facing the
street, I think they look like hell and at best it probably doesn't
add value to the house and could decrease it. Also, mounting them
on the ground can be an option in some cases.



*Since you plan to do the work
yourself, do you have any experience working with live electricity? *The
panels start putting out juice as soon as they are exposed to daylight.

An interesting point, but I don't see that as a big issue. Just put
a temporary cover on them. I think a bigger issue is getting the
install done right, which involves a lot:

Making sure the panels are oriented optimally.
Correctly sizing the system.
Installing them so that you don't wind up with leaks
Installing them so the warranty remains intact is critical and I would
suspect many of the companies will require professional installation
to honor the warranty.
Complying with all the electric code issues in hooking up to the grid.


In short, I do a lot of my own work, but this is one thing I would not
attempt to do myself.



I have been hearing Trinity Solar in NJ advertise free installation. *Give
them a call and see what that is about.

HD also runs seminars with their local installers using BP panels.
The seminar is about an hour and a good forum to get basic info and
ask questions. Even better, I'd find some local folks who have had
one installed for a year or more and ask them questions.


I personally believe that you will get a better and faster payback with
insulation which includes windows, doors, caulking and sealing and by
improving energy efficiency. *I've noticed that a number of customers are
going for window replacement due to tax credits.

Could be true, but then for many people it's not an either/or
situation.





The solar fallacy sort of *follows the same thinking as purchasing your own
home is a good investment. Of course your home will appreciate in value over
time. *However when you add up the interest paid on the mortgage, the taxes,
insurance, maintenance and upkeep as well as the purchasing and selling
costs it can actually be a loss.

If you do the actual numbers in NJ, which is one of the most solar
friendly states and use reasonable assumptions, solar electric comes
out a winner for the homeowner. However, that is only because of the
subsidies from the govt, which the rest of us wind up paying.

A 6.5 Kwatt system runs about $48K installed. You get a fed tax
credit of 30% which effectively knocks $14K off the price.. NJ also
has a program than can kick in maybe another $7K, but the program is a
real cluster f***. There isn't enough money, so every 4 months they
take applications for new systems. You have to get the application
approved BEFORE you can install the system. In May, they had
thousands of apps the first day they were open to receive them and
then within a day closed the window and stopped taking apps and you
are left to start all over. The application is extensive and must
include a signed contract with the installer, etc. How many times you
or the installer want to try to play that game is questionable. So,
for practical purposes, your probability of getting that one seems
low.

However, the utilities have to meet a goal of getting to 20% renewable
by 2020. So they are buying renewable energy credits from homeowners
which count toward that goal. You get one for every 1000 KWH that
your system generates, regardless of whether you use it or some or all
of it goes into the grid. The value of the credits is set by auction/
trading based on how badly the electric companies need them.
Currently they were going for about $550. At that price, the system
gets you about $4k a year in cash, which is a major component in
making it viable. That 6.5KW system will also reduce a $140 a month
bill close to zero.

If you factor all that together, figure that you finance the system
with a home equity loan that is tax deductible, depreciate it over 25
years, add in $500 a year in maintenance, etc, you can run the
numbers, but IMO you come out way ahead.

One other interesting factor to consider, that you might not expect,
is that in the case of a black out, you will still not have power to
the house unless you also install a battery array. If the grid goes
down, so does the system. I haven't heard a good technical
explanation of why, but I believe it's due to the fact that the system
needs something to balance it out. For example, if it were stand
alone and a cloud came by, you could have a brownout situation which
could damage devices in the house using the electricity.

As a disclaimer, I'm not an expert at any of this. All of the above
is based on what I've learned so far looking into it myself.